Tire balancing beads.

[becmat]

I remember seeing a post about tire balancing beads , however, I can't find it. Does anyone know anything about this product. Does it work , is it recommeneded by anyone other than the mfg. Is it safe and what are the side effects. Has anyone used it ???

Would love to hear anything good or bad.

 

Mat

[bobbybob]

I haven't used them but my friend tried them and said they would not help a tire that "really" needed balancing. He said they worked ok on tires that were only a little out of balance. But how would he know, if it was only a little out--probably wouldn't feel it anyway.....

 

Just how intelligent could a handful of ceramic beads be, that they would know exactly where to position themselves inside a wheel to correct an out-of balance?

 

 

Edit: forgot to mention, he also said it was a real PITA installing them thru a valve stem...

[moshe_levy]

MCN tested them and said categorically that they do absolutely nothing. Recently the mfr wrote in, and was rebuffed again by the editor. Seems, to them, that the product is worthless.

 

-MKL

[JayW]

Some people who have tried them swear that they work, but that is part of the problem. The company that makes them relies mostly upon anecdotal evidence and testimonials to support the value of their product. Their web site has a vague explanation of how they work, which I cannot comprehend. MCN's negative report was the final straw for me. I'm gonna stick to the tried and true approach for balancing my own tires.

 

Jay

[tomk99r11]

Well, I have used them in both tube and tubeless tires and in my experience they do work. I currently have them in my RT. My test was to mount a new tire and ride the bike with no attempt to balance anything. Balance was definitely needed. I marked the tire and rim, broke the bead and inserted the balance beads, put the tire back on with my marks aligned and rode the bike with no thump detected. I then demounted the tire, removed the beads, mounted the tire again aligning my marks and then balanced the wheel with my Parnes and traditional weights. There was no detectable difference, IMO, between the bead balance and the wt balance method. So, the debate goes on I know, but they do work in my experience. Not trying to sway anyone one way or the other.

[Indy Dave]

There is a similar technology that's been marketed and used inthe trucking industry. The major difference is that the truck version has media (beads) enclosed in a ring that bolts to the wheel. This link goes to their web site and a video demo.

 

Just furthering information on the debate . .

 

 

 

 

linky

[JayW]

Interesting link. It is a well-done demo. It looks to me like the wheel does shudder a bit as it gets up to speed, but seems to be steady out at high speed. I also wonder what effect "real world conditions" would have, such as hitting bumps and rotating the wheel for a turn. Also, dynabeads are lighter than the balls used in the video and, as mentioned, roll around freely in the tire rather than in a ring.

 

I dunno...

[Svensk]

I've used the Dyna Beads in the tires on my R1200rt since the first set of replacement tires - now on 3rd set - with good results. No issues up into triple digits. The beads can be reused.

 

Dyna Beads Locate a dealer on the website or order them directly.

[bobbybob]

With conventional balancing so simple and accurate, why would you want to do this?

[SageRider]

With conventional balancing so simple and accurate, why would you want to do this?

Simpler and more accurate. (assuming of course that this is actually the case.)

[Deadboy]

Show me a racer using them and I will consider them more seriously. So far they are the K&N filter of the wheel balancing world from what I have seen. Long on hype, short on actual data....

[becmat]

The reason I wanted to know about the dyna beads is because I have several local riders (not necessarily BMW riders) that swear by the beads for balanving tires. I am going to replace both my tires and wanted to know if it was a new technology that actually worked. I thought it might be something better that the old weights routine. Some claim that their tires actually stay balanced through the life of their tires?

Thanks to all who responded and offered up info. for or against. I guess we will find out eventually.

 

Mat of becmat

[SageRider]

Show me a racer using them and I will consider them more seriously. So far they are the K&N filter of the wheel balancing world from what I have seen. Long on hype, short on actual data....

Even if they do work and balance well, racers would likely never use them because:

1) It is excess unsprung weight. To be able to balance, there must be present more beads than is actually necessary. Since one doesn't know just how out of balance the tire is, one must estimate on the high side.

2) There is little risk to a racer losing any conventionally applied weights during a race.

If the wheels are throwing off mud or snow, I doubt that the racer cares about wheel balance.

3) I couldn't see Dynabeads being allowed on a racetrack. Imaging what might happen to the following riders if the leader destroyed a tire and spread beads all over the track...

[Deadboy]

All good points.....I will keep using my balancer.

[tomk99r11]

I used a balancer for many years, still have it. I tried the beads out of curiosity. It is a matter of choice obviously but just because someone does not believe they work does not necessarily mean they don't. Millions of people use the beads to their satisfaction. To each his own though of course and I really don't care what others do since my experience is positive with both ride, tire wear, and tire life but do whatever one thinks right.

[JayW]

Well, either the beads are an effective tool for balancing a tire at speed, or they are not. Personal opinions and testimonials have their places, but I am more interested in facts, objective evidence and data.

 

Jay

[bobbybob]

.... I am more interested in facts, objective evidence and data.....

 

Jay

 

Sorry, there isn't any.

[Deadboy]

Millions? I seriously doubt it is even in the 10's of thousands....then again some folks insist you don't need to balance a tire, so to each his own.

 

But without true data I will remain in the skeptical camp. Would be interesting to hear what a non-biased source, like say MCN has to say, oh wait they already did that ....

[Ewell D.]

Everyone has a right to their own opinion and to stick to it no matter what.

 

My experience with dynabeads was to have had them installed in a new set of avon storms on my 96 R1100RSl. That was at the suggestion of the independent shop owner.

 

I never had a reason to think about the balance of those tires and when I recently replaced them at 10,950 miles I had dynabeads installed in the storm ultras I had put on.

 

Just my experience YMMV.

 

Ewell

[RoanokeRider]

Well, either the beads are an effective tool for balancing a tire at speed, or they are not. Personal opinions and testimonials have their places, but I am more interested in facts, objective evidence and data.

 

Jay

 

Would you consider Dyna Beads as an expert? Even they admit that they don't work if you have a lateral imbalance and they recomend using a spin balancer to see if you have this problem. If I am going to use a spin balancer anyway, why do I need Dyna Beads? See below from the FAQ section on thier web site:

 

My vehicle has a [shimmy, shake, wobble]. Will your beads fix this?

 

No. There are three terms commonly used to describe lateral (back and forth) movement of the steering wheel, wobble, shimmy and shake. Two of these are a result of lateral imbalance of the tire/wheel assembly.

 

Wobble - Wobble can be caused from severly imbalanced tires (lateral or axial), but can also be a result of bent or damaged rims.

Mechanical Imbalance - This is lateral movement caused from tire or wheel non-uniformity or improper bead seating. Corrected by measuring the amount of tire and wheel runout and replacing the defective component.

Weight-related Imbalance - This is lateral movement at normal driving speeds commonly characterized as "shimmy" or "shake" resulting from unequal weight on both sides of the tire and wheel circumferential centerline. The wider the tire, the lower the aspect ratio, the more likely this is to occur.

 

How can I tell if my tire has a lateral imbalance problem before installing the beads?

 

If you have weights installed now:

The most obvious indicator is a large amount of weight (comparatively) on one side of the tire, and a smaller amount of weight on the opposite side.

 

 

If you are purchasing new tires:

Have the tires spun on a balancer. If the machine is telling you that you need a lot of weight on one side and little weight on the other, then the tire has a lateral imbalance.

 

 

 

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

Simpler and more accurate. (assuming of course that this is actually the case.)

 

I suppose pouring some beads through the valve stem could indeed be simpler, although bobbybob'sbuddy has reported otherwise.

 

More accurate? Gotta wonder. Moreover, does it need to be more accurate? With a static balancer I can easily balance a wheel to the point that I can't feel any vibration when I ride.

 

It's certainly more expensive than sticky weights.

 

Some claim that their tires actually stay balanced through the life of their tires?

 

If their claim is true (that the beads automagically account for the state of imbalance of the tire at any given moment), then this could be so. I will that in 150,000 miles of motorcycle riding, I can't recall a single tire having gone out of balance after the initial balancing was done with traditional wheel weights, so IMHO they are trumpeting a solution to a nonexistent problem.

[Matts_12GS]

It's certainly more expensive than sticky weights.

That has been my biggest contention

I had a tire replaced by BMW Daytona just before I left for Torrey and they used dynabeads in the tire. So, rear tire with beads front tire with lead. No perceivable difference in vibration or differences in wear from the two methods. I don't know why or how but it seems to have worked.

 

I can see where it could be a hassle to work 2oz of beads through the valve stem to balance a BMW wheel (as recommended by mfgr) compared to taping an ounce or so of lead to the rim but I know that 6 or 8 ounces of lead weight is a lot less expensive and last through a whole lot more sets of tires. If they were of an equivalent cost, or even within a dollar or so of the cost of lead I'd probably use them just to keep the crap off my wheels.

[elkroeger]

Interesting thread. I never thought of buying them, but I never considered them long enough to consider that they didn't (might not) really work.

 

One thought for the group: If pouring beads into your tires is supposed to work, then why couldn't we all just pour some WATER in there? It'd spread out better than the beads, and have less abrasion (if that's an issue). And it's FREE!

 

On second thought, it'd prolly turn to steam.... How about some other liquid? Mineral oil perhaps?

[JayW]

Interesting question. I suppose the liquid would have to be something that would not render the tire slippery if it were to leak out of a puncture, so mineral oil might not be the best choice. It would also need to be of low viscosity so that it could reposition itself quickly inside the tire. If Dynabeads work as the company claims they do, then I don't see why a liquid shouldn't work based on the same principle.

 

Jay

[Penforhire]

I've used Ride-On TPS fluid in airhead tire tubes. I imagine that fluid performs a similar task, as I never had any wheel balance issues up through 100 MPH and back. However, I always figured Dynabeads were mostly snake oil and MCN's study backs up that opinion.

 

Anyone have a well-documented study to point to that shows Dynabeads have value?

[outpost22]

Why use the beads?

 

Tried them, liked them, and still use them. I also don't own a tire balancer and can use the beads instead and go riding without taking the tire somewhere to be balanced. In 3 sets of tires, there has never been a vibration, odd wear issue or anything else that would lead me to believe I needed lead weights instead. In fact, the only odd wear I have had was to my old front Z6 that was weight balanced with lead from my dealer.

 

Hocus Pocus? Don't like them? Don't use them then. They work fine for me.

[g_frey]

I stopped balancing my tires about 70,000 miles ago. I get between 7,000 to 9,000 miles out of the tires (various brands) with no cupping, noise, uneven wear, etc.. The newer tires seem to be very balanced right out of the box. When I did balance tires I was moving very small weights around so I tried doing without and it seems to work. When I worked for Firestone we had a very slow day in the shop and a customer came in with this bead balancing system he wanted in his new car tires. So we tried them on one tire. Static balance stunk, dynamic balance not good, we advised the customer of this and he wanted them anyway so we put them in. He came back in with a tire adjustment complaint because his tires wore out too quick???

[Jazzy]

I'll add something here as to why the beads 'partly' work, other than watching the video of the spinning wheel stand hop about while the sales guy tells me "It isn't." Sort of like the fair Sham-Wow guy telling me, "Isn't this the best and freshest Salsa you've ever tasted?" out of his chopper/dicer. Only 'partly' true (i.e. the 'freshest' part).

 

Way back when, we had a local tire shop that actually made tires in steam molds. Pop stole my jar of mercury when it was much less toxic back then (ahem!). He had a large trucking company and he saw drivers from around the country adding all sorts of crap into his truck's tires like sand, golf balls, mercury, etc. as some sort of balancing compound recommended by out of state tire joints who probably gave a big crap less once they were on the road and gone.

 

Anyway, he took my pickle jar full of mercury and added some to his tires with the aid of the tire shop owner to his high-performance Hemi-Headed Chrysler New Yorker. They weighed and added the exact amount of mercury to each tire in lieu of lead weights.

 

After that, pop decided sailor-cussing was in order and mom got a bit loud about his "Cussing in front of the children" while we were shoved into the back seat. The car hopped like mad at times, and other times not so much. Eventually, the tire shop owner took it out and did the balance manually with lead weights while we played with his old Coca-Cola bottle machine trying to steal sodas. Pop got a whole lot quieter after that and rides were less turbulent.

 

If you've ever seen a tire being made, they wrap it onto a spindle and overlap it, hence the heavy spot that some tires are marked with. The steam or air-filled inner bladder that presses the outer rubber into the hot mold isn't at all concerned with the inner trueness of the tire. The steam mold itself determines the outer trueness, and maybe some spin-shaving as done with race tires. Hence, the inner part of the tire can have a low spot where the beads, sand, bb's, mercury, or even golf balls can get ingested and sit at. I grew up with the tire shop owner's son and know a bit of that history firsthand. If only the tire were smooth and true on the inside, then maybe, but they aren't smooth or true if you look.

 

Note too that a lot of the newer puncture-proof liquids sold make no claim as to "balancing" and that part I know about as well. A quarter inch diameter lag bolt jammed into your tire with that stuff in it will go flat. Been there. However, a plug shot into it once it's removed will seal well though. Problem with the liquid is it does get heavy at times, far worse when new and coating the inner casing, and the balance is irregular. The hammering on my car that has all four tires buried in the stuff gets a bit jarring at times. Other times its not bad, but if I get into another car with balanced tires I wonder why in the hell I did that (no thanks to Mr. 'Jay Leno's Garage' video!).

 

I think MCN nailed it as pretty much snake oil. I won't get into the Balance Masters that I put into my Harley engine either. Fool me thrice... If only it were that easy, they wouldn't need to use internal rotating "counter-balance shafts" as in some engines.

 

Jazzy

[OoPEZoO]

I stopped balancing my tires about 70,000 miles ago. I get between 7,000 to 9,000 miles out of the tires (various brands) with no cupping, noise, uneven wear, etc.. The newer tires seem to be very balanced right out of the box. When I did balance tires I was moving very small weights around so I tried doing without and it seems to work.

 

Same boat here. I haven't balanced a tire in over ~50k miles. They still run as smooth and straight as the previous ones I spent 20+ min a piece on trying to balance perfect. My current tires are PR2's with ~13k miles on the front tire and ~11k miles on the rear. Both are wearing evenly with no cupping or uneven wear at all.

[tomk99r11]

Obviously you don't know that the beads don't work.

[ltljohn]

Last time I changed a rear tire, we lined up the spot and valve stem then put the tire on a balancer. Presto it took the exact same 10 grams of lead in the exact same spot on the rim to balance it. Judging from my sample size of 1 and a 100% success rate, new tires are balanced from the factory.

[rob1100r]

Friend of mine just put them in the tires of his Honda 919, they work fine, they also work in the R1100R too... I've run into a couple people that did not balance streetbike tires in a while, just like a couple mentioned on this thread, maybe they are that good now? I guess a valve stem doesn't throw them out of whack...

[Deadboy]

Just to add my admittedly very small sample size to this thread: I own and use a snap-on motorcycle wheel balancer....you know the spin balance type that tells you exactly how much and where to add the weight. It is pretty slick for a shade tree type like myself. As a result I change a lot of tires for friends and so far I have had exactly one tire that needed no additional weights and was dead on the same as the previously mounted tire. I always line up the spot and give it a try before removing the weights, but in my limited sample (say 50 tires or so) the odds are pretty small.

[Matts_12GS]

Keith are you still balancing the wheels instead?

[OoPEZoO]

Keith are you still balancing the wheels instead?

 

To be honest.....I haven't done anything in 3+ tire changes. I don't even check anymore. I took the blind leap of faith to mount a tire and not balance it, and I haven't touched it since. If I was feeling anything screwy or seeing abnormal wear I would investigate, but I have rolled through 3 PR2 rears, 1 PR2 front, and 1 PR1 front without touching a thing

[rocks]

Keith are you still balancing the wheels instead?

 

To be honest.....I haven't done anything in 3+ tire changes. I don't even check anymore. I took the blind leap of faith to mount a tire and not balance it, and I haven't touched it since. If I was feeling anything screwy or seeing abnormal wear I would investigate, but I have rolled through 3 PR2 rears, 1 PR2 front, and 1 PR1 front without touching a thing

 

you're just a well centered individual

[motoguy128]

I've heard that good modern tires are typically fairly well balanced anyway due to better molding processes. So once the rim is balanced, you're is good shape.

[SageRider]

I've heard that good modern tires are typically fairly well balanced anyway due to better molding processes. So once the rim is balanced, you're is good shape.

While the tires I have experienced have not been bad, virtually all have required between 1 to 1.5 oz. of weight to balance. I've also tried the balance the rim concept which has accomplished nothing other than two sets of weights on the wheels instead of one. I have never had a tire balance perfectly without weights, even with a pre-balanced rim. (I've changed quite a few tires, too!)