Aerostich Transit

[UberXY]

The Fedex guy delivered my Aerostich Transit suit today and I gotta say, I'm impressed right out of the box.

 

It's very heavy duty - much much more than I expected - and I think it has more knee and shin protection than an NHL goalie. All in all there are nine impact pads, including a large one for the back. It weighs a little over 11 pounds.

 

I ordered this $1500 suit sight unseen and with some anxiety. However, I've been riding in a Roadcrafter for ten years, and I figured if the Transit was at least the quality of the Roadcrafter, it would be ok. Well, Andy really came through on this Transit - it's amazing. Quality leather, great lining, industrial strength zippers, well padded, no bells and whistles, no crazy graphics, and in the manly color.

 

Now I find myself looking forward to riding in a heavy rain on a cold day so I can check out how waterproof it actually is.

 

BTW, I rode in leathers (Brooks, Bates, Vansons) for 20 years and then switched to textiles for the last ten years, largely to beat the heat. After the break in period on my RR was over, I started thinking about going back to leather; hence the Transit purchase.

 

More after the first big rain.

 

[markgoodrich]

I'm more interested in hearing about the first ride in 90-degree, high humidity temp, than rain.

 

I wish Aerostich would use CE-approved armor. Yeah, yeah, I know about all the anecdotal stuff, but there's only one repeatable, observable testing standard. Sorry to go off topic...I really am interested in how it performs in the heat.

[moshe_levy]

"CE" in and of itself is not impressive in any sense. More than half of CE approved products, at least in the electronics we deal with at work, are "self certified" by the manufacturers and are thus allowed to bear the seal. Hardly proof of anything, objective or otherwise.

 

Aerostich is quality stuff and their pads have gone through some testing as shown in the catalog.

 

I've been begging my editors to let me do a comparo between the Transit and BMW's own Atlantis4. THAT would be cool!

 

Let us know more as the miles add up!!

 

-MKL

[Whip]

I love it.

 

I bet it would be approved for most track days as well.

 

 

[johnlt]

I'd love to have one but my SS check just won't support that kind of expenditure.

[Paul Mihalka]

I'd love to have one but my SS check just won't support that kind of expenditure.

 

x2

[Limecreek]

Please post your initial likes and dislikes. I am on the verge of purchasing the same kit.

 

Does it have under arm pit zips like the Roadcrafter?

[markgoodrich]

"CE" in and of itself is not impressive in any sense. More than half of CE approved products, at least in the electronics we deal with at work, are "self certified" by the manufacturers and are thus allowed to bear the seal. Hardly proof of anything, objective or otherwise.

 

Aerostich is quality stuff and their pads have gone through some testing as shown in the catalog.

 

I've been begging my editors to let me do a comparo between the Transit and BMW's own Atlantis4. THAT would be cool!

 

Let us know more as the miles add up!!

 

-MKL

 

Well, Moshe, you may be right about some things, but it's my understanding CE armor does go through standard testing. There are two tests, one for arms, hips, knees, etc, and a separate one for back protectors. Every back pad I see on jackets says "CE" on it, but it's invariably the lesser standard...strictly marketing, and bad business, in my view. But on point: CE armor is in fact tested to a certain standard. Nothing else is a standard. Aerostich's or other companies' armor MAY meet or exceed the protection, but there is no way to be certain.

 

Furthermore, some CE armor can actually injure you. I fell down on the track wearing leathers with CE-certified armor. The armor had hard edges on the knees and elbows. I landed on my head, then knees. Nothing broke, there was no long term joint damage, but the hard edges of the armor damaged the soft tissues above my knees. Years later I still feel it sometimes.

 

So, I still say, I won't wear anything but CE-certified armor, and I darn sure won't wear any with hard edges.

[Nesbocaj]

Oh, I am SO jealous! That is a beautiful suit. Something else my gut won't fit into.....$1500, damn!

[kmac]

good thing the weather is cooling down eh...

 

so does the jacket and pants zip together?

 

is a zippered suit ok for track days?...years ago when i was racing they would not even let us use the tracks on practice days without one piece leathers.

that would be nice if you can now use 2 piece leathers now..i would consider a 2 piece set

[moshe_levy]

Well, Moshe, you may be right about some things, but it's my understanding CE armor does go through standard testing. There are two tests, one for arms, hips, knees, etc, and a separate one for back protectors. Every back pad I see on jackets says "CE" on it, but it's invariably the lesser standard...strictly marketing, and bad business, in my view. But on point: CE armor is in fact tested to a certain standard. Nothing else is a standard.

 

Mark-

 

I am not an expert in CE certification for armor. Are you saying with 100% certainty that all armor bearing the CE seal has in fact been **independently** or **objectively** tested to standards?

 

I say this not knowing myself. What I DO know is that in electronics, there is a process (which overwhelmingly, most products bearing the seal go through) called "self certification." This is where the manufacturer claims the product is compliant with the given standards. The agency takes their word on it and conducts periodic audits here and there - similar to what is going on here in the USA with "Energy Star," which Consumer Reports debunked by showing just how many "self certified" products are actually nowhere near compliant when the products are actually tested independently.

 

The chances of an audit are slim so they try and get away with as much as they can.

 

By the way, re "testing to a standard," at least in electronics, another nice part of "self certification" is "compliance by analysis." Meaning - no actual testing takes place. Instead, the manufacturer claims compliance by simulation or analysis.

 

In the end, at least in electronics, a product which has been independently lab tested is sold side by side with a product which has "complied by analysis" based on the manufacturer's good word. Both bear the same seal.

 

So to me, CE doesn't mean much in and of itself. Companies like Aerostich and BMW at least show some evidence of actual testing in their ads, which is nice to see.

 

One thing this does bring up - we both likely are in complete accord that it would be nice to have one objective set of standards and actual testing of armor so we can buy accordingly.

 

-MKL

[markgoodrich]

Moshe, it IS my understanding that the testing is done by independent, government approved test labs. As with helmets, the tests involve dropping things on the armor, "kerbstones" of various weights, I believe. I had a long, interesting exchange with Paul Varnsverry about five years ago, regarding CE standards. I don't know if he's still active on this board or not. His website is quite informative.

 

In a nutshell, EN1621-1 is the standard which must be met for limb and shoulder/hip protectors; EN1621-2 is for back protection, and EN1621-3 and -4 either are, beinc considered for adoption for chest protection and torso "air bags" respectively.

 

As I said in my earlier post, most back pads you can buy only meed the EN1621-1 standard, i.e. they're NOT truly rated by CE as back protectors. In my mind this verges on criminal behavior by the marketers of the pads...the clothing makers.

 

I'm not saying the CE standard is the be-all, end-all (remember, I was injured as a direct result of wearing CE armor), but I do maintain it is the only carefully designed test standard, key word being "standard."

 

One thing I like about the CE standards is that they are constantly reviewed by various committees, and we'll see revisions and improvements as things evolve...unlike, say, the rigid Snell standards which stood for umpty years until Snell finally conceded that they might be um, improved upon, and now we have the "Snell 2010" standard for helmets, which, if I've read the literature correctly, is very close to the CE helmet standard.

 

Regarding your comment about BMW's "testing," it's my understanding BMW's armor is all CE-certified. Their new stuff, along with Rukka's, and perhaps some others, looks like it's far superior to anything we have been able to buy previously.

 

If I may, let me indulge myself with one of my favorite "peeves" about motorcyclists. Over and over and over and OVER through the years I've heard complaints about the high cost of, say, BMW or Rukka gear with the new DuPont stuff that is soft, but instantly hardens upon impact, then goes back to soft, etc. $1,500-2,000 is an "outrage." I'll point out, as I alwys do, that when the big truck with lights and sirens shows up, you're out that much, the second the EMS guys step on the ground.

 

And finally, again let me reiterate that I am not saying a Stich isn't going to protect you, save you, whatever; I'm saying their armor, for whatever reason, either has not been tested to CE standards, or has not met the standards.

 

Cheers, I hope this doesn't come across as some sort of rant or flame, the intent is to answer your questions.

 

EDIT: I'd LOVE to have a Transit suit, by the way, if I could divine two important things: how will it function in Texas summer heat, and, of course, is the armor CE-standard?

 

M

[moshe_levy]

Mark-

 

This is a very informative post. Apparently if correct it's a great deal more impressive than CE in other areas like electronics (which is what I deal with). I 100% agree with your feelings re cost. After buying my BMW Airshell last year, which is fitted with BMW's new NP protectors throughout, as well as displaying impressive build quality, I will never again buy anything but this level of premium gear. Slowly, but surely, my riding wardrobe is being overhauled accordingly.

 

I wish to research this more. Perhaps it might make for good fodder for future articles.

 

-MKL

[moshe_levy]

I think this statement by Andy Goldfine to the NTSB in 2006 would be a good read for his perspective...

 

Goldfine Statement 2006

 

-MKL

[EddyQ]

I just purchaced the RC 2 piece. So far, it looks and feels as I expected, very protective. The RC is replacing my old leather. I did considered the transit simply because I like the protective feeling of my leather. But the transit is a new design and lacks the field testing that makes the RC shine. However, I feel Aerostich has a very good track record and feel the transit could be another winner as the RC is. I also wish the transit came in a brighter color.

 

The RC has a very long record of protection. The two piece RC was first introduced in 1985 and hasn't changed much since then. It is very field proven which is worth more to me than some CE standard.

 

BMW, Rukka and other premium CE approved gear may be tested against the requirements of CE, BUT do they have a decade of folks using that exact garment with success? BMW likely makes changes to their gear every year and in my opinion that adds risk to the gear.

 

That being said, I too am uneasy with the fact that Aerostich armor is not CE approved. I'm a big fan of some level of requirements and testing. CE seems to be a effort in a good direction. Aerostich says their armor is tested and exceeds the impact requirements of CE. Although, they say some size issue (without details) limits their capability to get approval. I really did not dig to the bottom of this, but it is troubling. Is Aerostich armor better and there is something in the CE requirements that isn't allowing something better? Or is Aerostich armor really not as good as something CE approved? Does anyone know for sure?

 

 

[EddyQ]

I think this statement by Andy Goldfine to the NTSB in 2006 would be a good read for his perspective...

 

Thanks Moshe, that is Andy's perspective relative to my question and I agree with a lot of what he is saying. Although, the article does contain data, there seems to be a lot of info missing. Do you agree?

[moshe_levy]

Eddy-

 

In addition to the above posts I made re CE, another factor to consider is the almighty cost vs. benefit. In electronics, anything sold in Europe must bear the CE seal. If my sales in Europe are low, am I going to spend $10-15k to come up with a file for CE approval on my product? No.

 

I wonder if the same is true for armor. And so Aerostich may ask if it's worth it to buy or use or certify CE armor vs. their own design if an overwhelming majority of the suits are sold here.

 

I think Mark and I agree on the fact that CE makes it possible to objectively compare "certified" armor. In that way, as usual, Europe is miles ahead of us Yanks here (whose last objective study of motorcycle accidents was 30 years ago, for example!). The Europeans are more formalized in their approach to standardizing everything.

 

That said I am not convinced at all that testing all armor to a one-size-fits-all standard like CE is a good thing, nor even that all armor types bearing the seal are in fact actually tested. My experience with electronics has just made me an extremely skeptical person when it comes to standards testing, since there is such a myriad of ways around them (even when they make sense) that they don't mean much to me anymore. They are a for-profit industry, you know....

 

-MKL

[tallman]

I've seen a number of jackets after they were tested by customers.

Most protected the wearer from raod rash, including early mesh entries such as Joe Rocket.

I've seen a brand new Darien wear through in an under 40 mph get off, but stop short og allowing road rash.

Some of the gear was not much worse off, some wear marks, but not worn through or really worn down.

Fit is more importatn, IMO, than cost.

Cost can be indicative of quality wrt gear, but not always so much wrt helmets.

If you have good fit, w/most of today's armor, most of the time road rash is avoidable.

Impact is something else.

I'm deficient in this area wrt gear and I believe many are.

The amount of protection our chest and lower legs need (based on accident/injury data) is not reflected in the type of armor placement in most jackets/pants, IMO.

I think an impact resistant, abasion resistant air inflation system, pants and jacket with reinforced armor at major impact areas would be ideal.

It isn't out there, but a combination of under armor like Bohn and good kit can go a long ways.

Best wishes.

[markgoodrich]

Of course one-size-fits-all is not the commplete answer, but it is the only answer we have which can be objectively considered...remember my comments about the injuries to my legs while wearing CE knee armor....

 

Moshe, with respect, I think your position as a writer for MCN carries quite a bit of weight with lots of us; your unsupported skepticism regarding whether armor is actually tested is problematic to me, as it may give some folks the wrong impression, i.e. "Moshe says CE aren't really tested, and the tests aren't any good so I don't need...." My point is that conjecture without support can be misleading at best, dangerous at worst.

 

I wish Paul Varnsverry would/could weigh in here.

 

Goldfine's paper is from 2006, and only addresses one of his company's types of armor. In the interim, they've got what, two additional kinds of armor, and there have been dramatic strides in design and manufacture of armor, with new materials.

 

I apologize to the OP for taking this subject so far off topic. I'll follow reports on the suit's uh, suitability with high interest.

 

Cheers....

[moshe_levy]

Hi Mark-

 

In here I speak for myself only, not for a magazine. To me, it is precisely the factor of healthy skepticism which makes a columnist good - one who doesn't swallow the manufacturer's Kool Aid without looking deeper, and who based opinion on firsthand knowledge or objective evidence whenever available.

 

I made my comments re CE based on my knowledge of electronic goods compliance - my "real" job - and I stand by them. Nobody has chimed in with firsthand knowledge or proof that armor testing is in fact any more worthy of esteem than the electronics. It's the same agency, after all, so it's not a huge leap to make.

 

So I too will dig deeper, but as previously stated I don't put much faith in CE as much more than a manufacturer's rubber stamp until I see evidence of objective, independent testing - not "self certification," and not "compliance by manufacturer's analysis."

 

For the record I'm an ATTGAT guy, I recommend the best gear one can afford. I personally use premium gear, some with CE armor. I am not advocating avoiding CE gear. I am advocating, until evidence shown to the contrary, a healthy skepticism of what a CE seal in and of itself actually means in real world testing of armor. I am further advocating a position that some gear (usually non-European based manufacture, such as our homegrown Aerostich) which does not bear the CE seal may or may not outperform Euro-based CE-stamped gear in real world conditions.

 

The ultimate solution would be a comprehensive global standard with objective test results readily available. A nice pipedream, I know, but nonetheless such a solution would clearly be beneficial to all riders.

 

-MKL

[RevRay]

I picked up mine on the way home the UN.

 

Went to purchase a one piece Road Crafter instead purchased the Transit Suit. After finializing fit while seated on my bike, a short walk to near buy bank, with additional funds in hand deal was sealed. The good folks at Aerostich shipped my BMW vented gear home no extra charge. Mounted on my mechinized steed I thought WTF did I just do. It's 93 degrees out, while in motion the venting worked perfectly on the GS the real test was getting stuck in construction traffic. Sun shing down I thought I would slo cook, but not so I'm comparing my experience with track leathers vs. Transit suit. In route home I did my best to stay ahead of a rain front that was slowly catching up. Through Canada into New York I woke to pouring rain the remained of my trip would be in the pouring rain the suit performed flawlessly keep me nice and dry.

 

Now if I could figure out how to atttach sliders on the knees for that occasional track day.

 

 

[markgoodrich]

I picked up mine on the way home the UN.

 

Went to purchase a one piece Road Crafter instead purchased the Transit Suit. After finializing fit while seated on my bike, a short walk to near buy bank, with additional funds in hand deal was sealed. The good folks at Aerostich shipped my BMW vented gear home no extra charge. Mounted on my mechinized steed I thought WTF did I just do. It's 93 degrees out, while in motion the venting worked perfectly on the GS the real test was getting stuck in construction traffic. Sun shing down I thought I would slo cook, but not so I'm comparing my experience with track leathers vs. Transit suit. In route home I did my best to stay ahead of a rain front that was slowly catching up. Through Canada into New York I woke to pouring rain the remained of my trip would be in the pouring rain the suit performed flawlessly keep me nice and dry.

 

Now if I could figure out how to atttach sliders on the knees for that occasional track day.

 

 

Good report, thanks. How do you compare the leather suit in that construction traffic to your BMW vented gear (which model?), rather than track leathers?

 

The knee sliders answer is easy: duct tape.

[kmac]

the kneesliders are easy. buy the sliders move them around using duct tape until you find thhe right spot for comfort and contact...mark that directly on the leathers. most sliders are velcro on, with the sharper hooks side on the slider. You can buy velcro in sheets from any fabric store in multiple colors. cut it out to shape of the slider, i cut mine a bit oversized so i would have a little adjustment if fit wasnt perfect.

then use contact cement on both the knees of the leathers and on the back side of the velcro fuzzy LOOP.

Then take them to any upholstery shop or shoe repair and have them run some stitching thru the new velcro and leathers...

 

as a side note, once you cut out the velcro to the right shape it is always good to sindge the edge to slightly melt the edges and prevent fraying...you can use any hot piece of metal like a soldiering iron...i would NOT use an open flame because it can cause alot of periferal damage and is less controlable than a hot piece of metal...

i did this back in the 80s to a pair of street Vetter one piece leathers so i could use them when i started racing...worked great

[tallman]

Once you stitch through the Transit material, you lose waterproofness, ala USA Ryder Cup raingear.