Gerbings Heated Socks?

[dirtrider]

I see Gerbings is coming out with some "new" Micro Wire heated socks (about 17 watts). Anybody have any info on when they will be available or on any field test data available?

[EffBee]

Available approximately Dec. 15, + - a week or two.

[lawnchairboy]

when you need them, they are the best damn thing since sliced bread.

[cali_beemer]

Not a substitution for heated socks but these have helped me out quite a bit. I keep a handfull in the tankbag. Its not a real noticeable heat but it does a good job of not letting them get cold.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Grabber-Performance-Toe-Heater-Adhesive/dp/B000ITT6J4/ref=pd_sim_hpc_8

 

 

[Linz]

My feet get painfully cold here in winter and our winters don't look anyhting like a US winter. That said, we can ride all year here.

 

I must have poor circulation in my feet because I suffer badly on very cold rides. I bought Gerbings through recommendations in posts on this forum.

 

Bliss. Almost orgasmic bliss when you switch 'em on. They're almost too good because when on, they warm all of me so I have to switch them off for a while to cool down all over.

 

They're simply the best purchase I ever made for very cold winter riding, and I do a lot of that.

 

Linz

[malcolmblalock]

+1 on cold feet! Mine get cold in the summer sometimes! I'll be on the lookout for the microwire socks; I have the regular ones and, while they help my feet stay warm, the wires are bothersome.

[tallman]

FB,

Better be plenty of big foot size in stock, I know where you lib.

 

[VinnyR11]

Are the socks being discussed different from the socks shown on the Gerbings website? HERE

 

Also, anyone know if they will be offered with a Gerbings battery or will they need to be wired to the bike?

[tallman]

Vinny,

Link states NOT designed to be used on motorycles.

So, no, those aren't the droids you are looking for.

[dirtrider]

Afternoon Vinny

 

They are close but slightly different. They are supposed to be longer (extended height) so they can be used with higher motorcycle boots, have some sort of wire guides on the socks to keep the wires from balling up, have wicking 4 way stretch material, heated on the bottom as well as the top with mo towards toes, wide elastic band, round power cable, washable, specific sock for left and right foot.

 

 

 

[Peter Parts]

I assume none of you guys are riding boxers?

 

I get chilled as fast as the next guy. But the jugs help the heating a lot, as least with the more naked models.

 

Plenty of scope for warm footwear without needing electricity... right up to the point where shifting becomes awkward.

 

Ben

[dirtrider]

Evening Ben

 

Sure I’m riding a boxer. Less heat on my feet on my current boxer than any of my other bikes except my dirt bikes.

 

The new RT’s have the foot area sitting behind the plastic fairing surrounding the cylinders so the heat from the cylinders is ducted out to the side away from the foot area.

 

[EffBee]

Are the socks being discussed different from the socks shown on the Gerbings website? HERE

 

Also, anyone know if they will be offered with a Gerbings battery or will they need to be wired to the bike?

The Gerbing's line of Core Heat products (your link above) is battery operated from rechargeable 7V Lithium Polymer batteries. They work great for hiking, fishing, and other non-motorized recreational activities. The 12V bike-powered socks coming from the Gerbing's Powersports Division will look similar (different color) and will be warmer. They will come up over the calf and be made from a 4-way stretchable wicking material. They will have designated left and right foot socks, so they fit your feet correctly and snugly. By forum rules, I cannot divulge retail price or this becomes a commercial post. However, they will not be much more than our previous socks were.

 

And yes, if you wanted to run them off a battery, the battery straps from the Core Heat socks will fit your legs and you will be able to fit a pair of 12V Gerbing's batteries that should provide a couple of hours of warmth, depending on how high you set the heat. But ideally, they should be powered from the bike's electrical system.

[EffBee]

FB,

Better be plenty of big foot size in stock, I know where you lib.

We'll be able to fit most feet. Just not anyone taller than about 6-4.

[onmyrt]

I cannot find 12V socks anywhere on their site, only insoles.

 

HELP !!!

[dirtrider]

Morning Michael

 

Give it a few weeks then look back on the Gerbings site-- EffBee says “Available approximately Dec. 15, + - a week or two”.

 

The old original Gerbings heated socks were a real pain as they were not Micro Wire so bunched up under foot, had hot spots, and the wires would get all misplaced when washed. Gerbings hasn’t sold those in a while now.

 

I have the original Gerbings socks and haven’t used them in years for the reasons stated above. I do have the Gerbings heated insoles and those do work somewhat but lack heat to the tops of the feet. They do heat the bottom of the feet pretty good. The heated insoles seem to work better on motorcycles with foot boards as the foot is more evenly loaded on the foot boards. The heated insoles do allow hot spots when used on a bike with round foot pegs.

 

I am waiting for the “new” Micro Wire Gerbing socks myself as those might be the ticket to happy feet.

 

Actually I have heard strong rumors of a Gerbings “Inferred” sock in the future. Now that will be the hot ticket if and when they hit he market.

 

[EffBee]

Actually I have heard strong rumors of a Gerbings “Inferred” sock in the future. Now that will be the hot ticket if and when they hit he market.

 

If by "Inferred" you mean "Infra-Red" or any of its variants, the answer is no, we won't be doing that. This current marketing under the term "Infra-Red" or "FAR Infra-Red" is just the old Carbon Fiber heating elements. We work closely with the U.S. Military, and they discarded CF heating decades ago. Our own testing shows several drawbacks. Now, I'm not here to speak ill of any other company. However, I will speak as to what our testing showed us about CF heating elements.

 

Generally, CF heats quickly. That's a plus. And if woven into a fabric, there are no wires. Those of you who remember the ill-fated BMW CF Heated Vest can attest to the fact that there are no wires at all. But you also remember why that vest did not succeed. It failed at an alarming rate because the CF "elements" cracked and broke.

 

This, unfortunately, is a common problem with CF wiring. CF is stiff and brittle. Even in more flexible wire form, it is still comparatively brittle. And when strands break in a thin CF weave, that area of the product stops heating. When strands break in a CF wire, that wire develops a "cold spot". To compensate for that, thicker CF wires with more strands are used, so that routine strand breakage constitutes a smaller percentage of what makes up the wire, thus reducing how pronounced the cold spots are. But more strands means more heat, and that requires thicker wire insulation, which makes the already thick wire even more uncomfortable.

 

Our testing also found that because CF is organic in nature, it is difficult to get consistent performance out of it. The watts per inch vary too much to meet our production standards. The inconsistency of CF might best be understood in terms of stiffness (which has nothing to do with heated clothing, but does provide a good example). Anyone who's worked with CF in building resin-soaked, autoclave-baked stiff performance parts knows that the biggest problem isn't stiffness, it's getting it to the exact same stiffness every time. Those arcing CF swingarms used in MotoGP bikes? Many get discarded because of inconsistencies. Once a rider finds one or two that work to his satisfaction during testing, those are guarded like gold.

 

Finally, CF is subject to rapid decay (half-life) if the elements are not sealed from moisture and oxygen. The thought of using CF wires in an enclosed area (like a sock in a boot) with the walking stresses, flexing and loads, plus the potential for external moisture and internal sweat, gives our product developers nightmares.

 

This is not to say that CF shouldn't be used in heating. For any type of static heating, where flexing is not a daily issue, it works quite well, is inexpensive in wire form, and if sealed from the elements can be made to last. And being less expensive, you can see the attraction for a company trying to break into the market. It's just not what our testing shows to be best suited for use in heated motorcycle clothing. Therefore, we don't, and won't, use it.

[dirtrider]

Afternoon EffBee

 

Some automotive companies have been using CF in heated seats for some years now. Somehow they are making it work in a flexible situation.

 

 

[Paul Mihalka]

Afternoon EffBee

 

Some automotive companies have been using CF in heated seats for some years now. Somehow they are making it work in a flexible situation.

 

Not as much flex as for instance bending a elbow...

[eddd]

...They will have designated left and right foot socks, so they fit your feet correctly and snugly.

 

Wonderful! I just figured out how to tell which boot goes on which foot, and now I have to worry about socks too!!!

[EffBee]

Afternoon EffBee

 

Some automotive companies have been using CF in heated seats for some years now. Somehow they are making it work in a flexible situation.

 

Not as much flex as for instance bending a elbow...

That would be the correct answer. The amount of flexing we put our heated motorcycle gear through, from elbows and shoulders, to wadding it up and stuffing it into a saddlebag once the day warms up, is dramatically more than what takes place in an automotive seat. And of course you can understand why they would use CF. It heats quickly, so it demo's quite well in a showroom. And it's quite inexpensive, so the profit margins are higher.

 

As I said, CF heating does have its strengths and areas where its application are quite suited. We just don't believe that heated motorcycle gear is one of them, and certainly the military doesn't think CF is sufficiently durable for that what their servicemen put these types of garments through.

 

Again, not to speak ill of any product. Each technology has its place and its strengths. Microwire (or even the old copper resistance wire that everyone used for decades) is more suited to MC gear than CF. I do have heated seats in the wife's car, and they're probably CF. They work fine.

[moshe_levy]

Eff-

 

Not to hijack the thread, but during my testing for MCN, I came away most impressed with the "FabRoc" element used in the EXO line. Have you any experience or thoughts on that element?

 

Vs. Microwire it was equally comfortable, and in socks I would imagine even more so since there are truly no wires. It heated up quickest, and drew roughly half the wattage to reach the same or higher temps than anything else tested.

 

I wasn't really sure what it was made from or what truly long term testing would reveal, or if it is somehow a variation of CF type conductive material. I do know it worked quite well relative to everything else I tested, and was curious if you've studied it. I post this here in case others are interested as well.

 

-MKL

[johnlt]

Many times new technology takes some time to mature. Maybe the infra-red is one of those technologies thaa is maturing. Only time will tell. Come on BETA testers, give it a shot and let us know.

[EffBee]

Eff-

 

Not to hijack the thread, but during my testing for MCN, I came away most impressed with the "FabRoc" element used in the EXO line. Have you any experience or thoughts on that element?

 

Vs. Microwire it was equally comfortable, and in socks I would imagine even more so since there are truly no wires. It heated up quickest, and drew roughly half the wattage to reach the same or higher temps than anything else tested.

 

I wasn't really sure what it was made from or what truly long term testing would reveal, or if it is somehow a variation of CF type conductive material. I do know it worked quite well relative to everything else I tested, and was curious if you've studied it. I post this here in case others are interested as well.

 

-MKL

 

 

We have that same type of material in house and have studied and tested it. Like all heat technologies, it has pros and cons. Our only concerns in evaluating it is how well these relate to our corporate goals of producing the best heated clothing. Again, I'm not speaking about any specific company, but only about the technology in question.

 

Our R&D Dept. tells me this material is essentially a silicone membrane with a carbon powder and metallic fill mixed into it in the molding process. Because it is a rubberized "sheet", it delivers heat across its entire surface, rather than wires which heat the entrapped air in order to create a broad heat. Same results, different approach.

 

As a silicone element, it's not ideally suited to consistently connecting power wires to it and interconnecting wires (from heating pad to heating pad) because there's nothing to solder to and no wires to crimp together. Wires are sewn on to the silicone membrane. This does work, but unfortunately doesn't provide the durability we were looking for. With much pulling and tugging we were able create a connection with increased resistance, and a heating pad that didn't quite do what it once did. Overall the material is not bad though. Just not quite good enough for what 36 years has taught us that people want from (and do to !!!) their heated gear. YMMV.

 

This type of material is also slower to heat and to cool. So when you need an increase or decrease in heat as you travel in/out of sunny areas on cold days, or up and down through cold valleys and warming hills, the reaction time of the garment lags behind your immediate need.

 

One advantage is that it's a reasonably flexible material, not anywhere as stiff as CF, even when cold. Another is that this kind of material is waterproof and for the most part chemical proof. I don't know how often people get their heated gear wet, but if you do it's something to consider.

 

By the same token, this impermeability means that there's no air flow through the heating pads on the chest, back, sleeves or collar. This can constitute as much as 70% of the inside surface of a jacket liner. We know from testing that while we like a relatively sealed environment in which to create/distribute heat, a little bit of air flow in order to avoid stagnation and perspiration makes for a much more comfortable garment. Additionally, no one wants to be wet when it's cold. This is why rubberized products like motorcycle rainwear are now ventilated in non-leaking areas. Didn't used to be that way, and riders would get home as soaked in humidity-derived perspiration as they would have been soaked in rain had they not had the impermeable gear.

 

As I've said before, each heating technology has its appropriate applications. For an environment where direct moisture is an issue, and where pulling on the sewn-in wire connections will not be taking place, where human beings who perspire are not involved and where air flow is not an essential to comfort, a heated rubberized silicone membrane may well be the answer. It's a question each rider must answer for him/herself.

 

[moshe_levy]

Interesting take, thanks for the reply.

 

-MKL

[Powerlet]

Recently there was a posting made that spoke somewhat negatively to the use of CF and FIR heating in garments. Some of the information that was posted did not take into consideration the many different forms of CF that exist today. A few years back when others were still focusing on traditional wired technology with certain advanced wiring compositions making them thinner in gauge, but still wired in feel, we were working hard on new more innovative technologies that improve the look and feel of this product line. At the end of the day, it is not only if it warms or not, it is how well does it warm, how good does the garment feel and most of all does it fit.

 

The comments that CF heats up quickly are spot on. We agree absolutely and if we may add, it heats up faster than any other wired or metal wire incorporated into a liner today.

 

The comments concerning CF as stiff and brittle may be an old world generalization. There are many different types of CF on the market today. Certain types are used in the automotive industry, and many others have been used throughout the medical and physical rehabilitation industry. In addition, the advancements made in CF, and its application in the apparel industry over the past few years has improved in such a way where no longer is brittleness an issue issue. As an example the FIR glove liners produced currently by Powerlet are in fact soft, manageable and fully collapsible. Able to be stored in very small compartments yet easily slip on easily and comfortably in even the coldest of environments.

 

We want readers to be aware that not all CF technology is the same, and today, CF garments have a look and feel of something that was actually designed to be worn, even when not out on the bike.

 

Independent studies have shown that FIR works. There is a ton of good reliable information on the Internet these days ( most you can trust) and you may find some of these sites helpful:

 

http://www.universalbiomat.com/farinfraredrays.php

http://science.hq.nasa.gov/kids/imagers/ems/infrared.html

http://www.earthtym.net/ref-far-infared.htm

 

There are many other good websites out there that further discuss the benefits of this type of technology.

 

Again, we want readers to be aware that not all CF technology is the same, and today, the Powerlet CF garments have a look and feel of something that was actually designed to be worn, even when not out on the bike. There are many ways to process CF – and not all CF is created equal. THE CF and FIR heating systems used in the Powerlet line of glove liners and new jacket liners is aerospace-grade carbon fiber.

 

Comments regarding garments requiring thicker insulation also are inaccurate. Insulated garments have long been on the market. Many garments on the market today that used traditional wire technology require the added padding in order to keep warm when riders are in extreme temperatures. Due to the limitations of wired technologies, the need to insulate will always be needed.

Since the technology that we use is not a carbon fiber wire, there is no need to further increase the insulation of the wire. Powerlet liners utilize CF bundle technology that uses thousands of fine CF strands. These strands are so thin, they again make traditional wired or stainless steel wired garments a thing of the past. We too can control consistency in heating and can maintain our variance to +/- 5% tolerance.

 

As for performance, for someone without expertise it may be an issue. The manufacturing processes that one uses is what is heavily guarded and protected. These are commonly referred to as trade secrets and once you release a product to market, it will be those that follow with similar products to ours where one will see that good things look to be copied.

 

Finally, CF is subject to rapid decay, (half-life) well, again, perhaps someone forgot to inform the likes of NASA. The durability, quality and long wearing performance is something that CF is known for.

 

I invite forum members to write to us directly with question , comments and improvements that you may feel are needed in our product line. We love the feedback and appreciate those that take the time. If you ever purchase a Powerlet labelled garment and feel that it could be better in some way, let us know. Your feedback and comment is what has made the line of Powerlet products as vast as it is.

Thanks all and have a great holiday.

 

[KDeline]

[Lmar]

[siclmn]

Ok guys, I have been awaiting the microwire socks since I first heard about them. I was expecting a wool sock with microwires in them so no more discomfort when steping on the wires. This new sock is not that, it is a frankenstein device of nylon and spandex that holds the heated parts around your foot. From your heel upwards it is not heated but it's a spandex device that goes up to your knee and then a tight elastic device is gripping your leg to keep it there. Where the wire enters the sock at the arch of your foot there is a big lump of something that you will feel all the time. I was told I needed to wear another thin sock over all of this mess. On the old socks I have about a foot of excess wire coming out of my pants, on these there is now two feet of wire coming out, where are you supposed to put all this wire? Someone screwed up bad on this design. They are going back to Gerbings.

[notacop]

Why do they not just make a heated pad that fits in the Boot like a Dr. Schools pad. The wiring could be velcroed to the inside of the boot or maybe a pop rivet?

Then one could just buy a properly sized boot of accept the pad, like a 1/2 size larger?

Frozen Phalanges are the last of my concerns now that the Jacket, gloves and grips are heated.

[SageRider]

You mean like Gerbing's heated insoles?

[dirtrider]

Afternoon notacop

 

Those are called heated insoles and Gerbings currently offers that product. The heated insoles work pretty good and with low current usage (around 15 watts). Only problem is they ONLY heat the bottoms of the feet but not the tops or sides.

 

I own a pair of older (wool type) Gerbings heated socks, those do (did) work fair for a short while but the wires kept getting twisted up and they were difficult to wash or walk in. In my estimation not the best of products (Gerbings quit selling those a while back).

 

I currently own the above mentioned Gerbings heated insoles and those work OK on a Harley with a full foot board but are limited on bikes using foot pegs. They also leave the tops and sides of the foot cold due to no heat in that area. They are better than the older heated socks to walk on and are pretty non intrusive when in use. They do take a boot with a removable (replaceable) insole or at least plenty big in the vertical foot size.

 

I have been patiently awaiting the NEW Gerbings MicroWire socks but after reading Mr Siclmn’s reply above now I'm not so sure.