TBI Sync Tool, with Gauges

[David13]

I am looking for a carb/tb sync tool. I have used the mercury tube type before and do not like them.

I have seen others use the TwinMax and I don't like it.

In the Haynes book, they show at least 2 ordinary dial type gauges hooked up to the tbs. On a 1200.

That's what I want. Do I have to make one? If so any help would be appreciated.

Does any company make one? If so, please give a reference.

Thanks

dc

[BMWED]

I made one using a single vacuum gauge hooked it up to a 12volt solenoid valve so I can switch between the two cylinders with a push button. I tried using two gauges, but they always read a different value even when hooked up to the same vacuum source.

 

Ed

 

[David13]

That is good info, Ed, thanks.

I tried Max BMW, they don't know, and only have sold the Twin Max.

I'm thinking I have to make one.

Can you give details? Type of gauge, range, manuf. and the switch set up.

It sounds just like what I want.

I did email Intercomp. They make some good gauges. But none set up for tb sync.

dc

[BMWED]

I made it out of stuff i had lying around. I had access to industrial parts ie: solenoids so that's what i used. I'll take some digital photos so you can get an idea of what i did.

 

Ed

[Rich06FJR1300]

beemer boneyard has a sync tool as well with the steel rods in the place of the mercury, about a 100 bucks.

[philbytx]

Morgan Carbtune

[tallman]

Morgan Carbtune

 

Si, Morgan Carbtune is the way to go.

[Lone_RT_rider]

Morgan Carbtune

 

Si, Morgan Carbtune is the way to go.

 

And the next question, where to purchase one that is US based. My google search only yielded the UK location.

 

Shawn

[GRB60]

http://www.beemershop.com/

[tallman]

Ordered from them back in the day.

Had it in a week.

No biggie.

[philbytx]

FYI - Mr. Morgan offers great service. I ordered directly and received within a week!

 

[Matts_12GS]

my brother and I just did his race bike and my yamaha triple with a set of these.

[David13]

Matt

That is the type of thing I am looking for. That is what is pictured in the Haynes book.

And it also is what is used by a super bike shop in Petaluma. Only his was made by a company no longer in business.

But, what about the criticism above, that one gauge with a switch is better, as more than one gauge may give a different reading on the same source?

If you switch the lines, do you still get the same reading?

dc

[Matts_12GS]

I have never used these before this one time so let me issue that disclaimer.

My brother, who was a bike mechanic for several years (and is so cheap that he really should ride a BMW) has used this set for quite a while now.

 

These have small adjustors so that you reduce the amount of vacuum to reduce the needles from bouncing around too much. With my triple, we warmed it up, shut it down and the hooked up the gauges. Then we looked at the 3 needles and tweaked the adjusters to slow the needle oscillation. After that, we got them as close as we could with the mechanical adjustments and then opened up the valves again to see how stable it was.

 

If you had one gauge that read significantly different, it would be easy to swap lines and see if it was a gauge or a source issue.

 

I think we should remember that we are not calibrating precision devices to the vacuum of the engine. If we are close to same reading on all the gauges then we're more than likely "good enough" to have a motorcycle that runs well. You can chase perfection if you want to, but most likely you'll just get frustrated if you do.

[druggrepp]

Northerntools.com has vacuum guages for $8 each, so I am going to buy 2, mount on plexiglass panel and save $80 to do sync

[David13]

Matt

I have sought perfection my entire life. However, I do believe I have never felt any emotion that I could label as frustration.

Love, hate, anxiety, fear and loathing, apprehension, and a whole lot of other stuff, but I truly think never frustration.

It is called practice. That is because we know from the get go that we will never get it perfect. So we practice.

And somewhere, we find good enough.

dc

[Peter Parts]

You can find a little write-up at my website, link below, that explains why I think the most sensible synch'ing method, by far, is dual vacuum gauges and including a road test with the gauges as part of the tune up. Interesting to learn Haynes agrees.

 

You'll also see a picture showing how precisely identical are the readings on my two very beat-up old cheap gauges.

 

For those who don't read "signatures" beneath posts, I have 45 years uninterrupted experience tuning BMW boxer twins.

 

Ben

[Peter Parts]

Northerntools.com has vacuum guages for $8 each, so I am going to buy 2, mount on plexiglass panel and save $80 to do sync

 

Buy three and toss the odd-reading one into the trash. Or buy four and make two matched sets.

 

Matching/tracking is very important, of course. AND being able to read the absolute value is also important (something none of the other methods accomplishes). But high accuracy is definitely not important.

 

You'll find a picture of how I attach my pair to an R1100S when taking a test drive at the URL below. Piece of cake.

 

Ben

[SuperG]

will oil filed gauges work? and what should the range be?

 

 

[Peter Parts]

I don't know about oil-filled gauges.

 

But you do need something to dampen the motion of the needle with each pulse at low rpms (called "snubbers" for squelching the vibrations). Many gauges come with these. Two fuel line clamps or pin-holes do it - but different damping for different speeds. And the damping has to be quite similar for the two sides.

 

Easy to make a tee (auto store has tees in the windshield washer hose shelf) and check that the two meters read similarly. Some meters can be adjusted by simply twisting the dial! (How do you think they do it in the factory, eh.) Or simply rotating it in your mind.

 

Most of the action at idle and running is 1-8 "inches" (ooops, not sure if that's water or mercury), Very low at big throttle. But zooms up to 20 or more when you shut down when going fast. Pity there's nothing like what is called an "expanded scale" electric meter where one end of the range is magnified.

 

You can never get it perfect but given the critical importance on a boxer engine of good sych'ing, important to (1) check/confirm/re-synch it on the road under load and (2) see the whole range of butterfly (plus BBS) action for idle, accelerating, braking, steady, etc.

 

A boxer engine should have vibration-free mirrors.

 

Ben

[TEDZ]

How about a simple manometer, 2 stroke oil in a plastic tube. I used mine Monday evening, balancing at idle around 2500 RPM and it's smooth through the entire band. It's worked fine for 4 years and no parts to break or adjust on it.

[dirtrider]

Morning TEDZ

 

That’s the way most of us do the TB balance if we want it as perfect as possible for the least amount of money invested. Those simple home built manometers are way-way more accurate than any of those inaccurate oscillating-needle type vacuum gauges.

Inches of water (or 2 cycle oil) has a much better resolution than the much heavier inches of mercury that cheap vacuum gauges read in. 1 inch Hg of vacuum shown on a cheap oscillating vacuum gage is almost 13.6 inches of water on a homemade U tube manometer.

 

 

 

 

[Peter Parts]

Everybody who has tried a manometer and not had a mess or a catastrophe raise your hand.

 

Ummm, can't see many hands.

 

(OK, hard to see, but haven't raised my hand. Wanna see the big red ATF stain on my bike shed floor?)

 

Manometers are very accurate. Accurate enough (and uncalibrated enough) and TB vacuums are variable enough to make you crazy synch'ing with 'em... compared to other methods - esp. methods that you can drive around under load with.

 

"SNUBBER" that's what you call the little valve that snubs vacuum gauge vibration.

 

Ben

[ltljohn]

Everybody who has tried a manometer and not had a mess or a catastrophe raise your hand.

 

Ummm, can't see many hands.

 

(OK, hard to see, but haven't raised my hand. Wanna see the big red ATF stain on my bike shed floor?)

 

Manometers are very accurate. Accurate enough (and uncalibrated enough) and TB vacuums are variable enough to make you crazy synch'ing with 'em... compared to other methods - esp. methods that you can drive around under load with.

 

"SNUBBER" that's what you call the little valve that snubs vacuum gauge vibration.

 

Ben

 

OOOh OOOh Both hands in the air.

[Ken H.]

Everybody who has tried a manometer and not had a mess or a catastrophe raise your hand.

Consider my hand raised. Used one for many years with great results. No messes, no catastrophies.

[dirtrider]

OOOh OOOh Both hands in the air.

 

Afternoon ltljohn

 

Yes, me too, both hands up-- NEVER ever had a problem using a liquid manometer. If a person has problems using a liquid manometer then they have other issues to contend with. If it won’t stay balanced after a ride or it drives them crazy then they are doing something drastically wrong, or have other issues like worn TB parts or cables.

 

I suppose if “close enough” is the aim and accuracy & precision isn’t a prime requirement then other means will work just fine for TB syncing.

 

I guess my mind set is that it is just as easy to do the balance with precision using inches of H20 accuracy as it is to do it another way with much less inherent accuracy.

 

[TEDZ]

Never had a problem. I've used 2 stroke oil just in case it sucked it into the engine, but it never has. I have been quick to hit the kill switch a few times though. I've even moved up to using a larger diameter tube, it flows easier than the narrower tube did. Dirtrider's comparison to mercury is encouraging, I shoot for a 2 inch or less variance with the 2 stroke oil.

[Sweendog]

I haven't built mine yet, but was planning on following the design of a nice Brit on You-Tube:

 

I'm pretty sure I can do it w/out getting two-stroke oil all over the place. =D

[Alfred02]

Well

I have ordered one of these:

Harmonizer vacuum multi tool

By the way.

No vibration in mirrors isn't exactly a high goal.

My bike vibrates most likely more then it should for a really well tuned bike, but it has zero vibes in the mirrors.

All it means is that my vibes are not at the same frequency or multiple of it (harmonic) that the mirrors would complement or even amplify.

[David13]

I will be very happy to read your full report after you get it.

dc

[PAS]

Well

I have ordered one of these:

Harmonizer vacuum multi tool

By the way.

No vibration in mirrors isn't exactly a high goal.

My bike vibrates most likely more then it should for a really well tuned bike, but it has zero vibes in the mirrors.

All it means is that my vibes are not at the same frequency or multiple of it (harmonic) that the mirrors would complement or even amplify.

 

Have you used the new device yet?

[Linz]

My bike vibrated badly when I over-filled the oil. I couldn't tune the vibes out either. I worked out what was wrong (due to a thread here a few years ago) and voila! No vibes.

 

Linz

[David13]

There is still a big thread on the device on Advrider. By Grok, the maker of the thing. I have not looked at it recently, but last time everyone seemed happy with the devices.

dc

[Beagler]

Well

I have ordered one of these:

Harmonizer vacuum multi tool

By the way.

No vibration in mirrors isn't exactly a high goal.

My bike vibrates most likely more then it should for a really well tuned bike, but it has zero vibes in the mirrors.

All it means is that my vibes are not at the same frequency or multiple of it (harmonic) that the mirrors would complement or even amplify.

 

I've used one (harmonizer) and it worked great. The inventor of the device help me sync my TB's at our local club's tech day. Seems like a good product and I'd recommend it. Plus it's made by a BMW rider.