Metzeler tire break-in

[Kouros]

Can you please explain whats the proper way breaking in new Metzeler tires or any motorcycle tire. Thanks in advance.

-Kouros

[Michaelr11]

Be gentle with use of throttle, brakes and lean angle for the first 50 to 100 miles. As you increase wear, you can apply more of each. Probably one of the most common drops with new tires occurs pulling out of the driveway of the shop that installed them - cold tires, too much throttle and too much lean angle.

[LBump]

+1 50 to 100 miles sould see you fine.

[R & R]

I like to warm up the tires & head to an empty school parking lot. There I'll do some slow speed practise that helps scuff the rubber in also. Turns about a point & figure 8's at progressivly steeper lean angles. Makes me feel better out on the road.

[Kouros]

Thanks for the replies

[russell_bynum]

Can you please explain whats the proper way breaking in new Metzeler tires or any motorcycle tire. Thanks in advance.

-Kouros

 

This is a subject full of superstitions and bullsh*t advice.

 

I don't do anything differently with a new tire than I do when I've got used tires. Which is to say that I start gently and work up to more lean and throttle/brakes gradually. I do this normally because it takes my brain a while to get up to speed. By the time my head is where I want it, my tires are ready...new or old.

 

At the track (running street tires), this means I was generally knee-down by the third lap...less than 5 miles.

 

On the street, it would be rare to have great twisties literally right off the edge of your driveway, so it'll take a bit longer, but the "50-100 miles" recommendation is completely arbitrary.

 

The important thing is not the number of miles...it is that you don't ask too much from the tire before it has reached operating temperature. Some people also believe that it is important to scuff the surface of the tire for various reasons (to remove mold-release, because the surface of a new tire isn't as grippy as the surface of a scuffed tire, etc). I don't see much value in that (and I'll back up that statement by noting that many professional racers start a race with tires that are brand new...but steaming hot from the tire warmers), but my riding style is probably such that I wind up easing into full lean/power/brakes gradually anyway since as I said...it takes my brain a little while to get up to speed.

 

So...to be safe: the two things you need to think about are getting the tire up to operating temp, and scuffing the surface of the tire for maximum traction. You don't need 100 or even 50 miles to do the former..you just need a couple of miles unless it is really really cold. For the latter, 50, 100, or 10,0000 miles isn't going to help you. What you need is corners. Some people go to a parking lot and do tighter and tighter circles. I just take off on my normal ride but ease into the corners and work up to my normal pace gradually.

 

...which is what I do with old tires, too.

[marcopolo]

This is what Dunlop says on the question of new tires:

 

"When new tires are fitted, they should not be subjected to maximum power, abrupt lean-over or hard cornering until a reasonable run-in distance of approximately 100 miles has been covered. This will permit the rider to become accustomed to the feel of the new tires or tire combination, find the edge and achieve optimum road grip for a range of speed, acceleration and handling uses. Advise your customer to check and adjust to recommended inflation pressure after tires cool for at least three (3) hours following run-in. Remember: New tires will have a very different contact patch and lean-over edge."

[CoarsegoldKid]

 

On the street, it would be rare to have great twisties literally right off the edge of your driveway, so it'll take a bit longer, ...

 

The important thing is ... that you don't ask too much from the tire before it has reached operating temperature.

 

So...to be safe: the two things you need to think about are getting the tire up to operating temp, and scuffing the surface of the tire for maximum traction. ...you just need a couple of miles unless it is really really cold. ...What you need is corners. ... I just take off on my normal ride but ease into the corners and work up to my normal pace gradually.

 

...which is what I do with old tires, too.

 

+1

I'm lucky to have the twisties right out of the driveway. I install my own tires. I don't baby them. Do what Russell is saying and you will okay. Tire temp and psi are the critical parameters. The only way a portion of a tire is going to be scuffed in is to scuff it in. Not leaning it over ain't going to scuff in the entire tire. Waiting 50 miles to lean it over means you waited 40+ miles to scuff it in. Treat it just like you would any tire you just rolled out of your garage. Ride it.

[russell_bynum]

This is what Dunlop says on the question of new tires:

 

"When new tires are fitted, they should not be subjected to maximum power, abrupt lean-over or hard cornering until a reasonable run-in distance of approximately 100 miles has been covered. This will permit the rider to become accustomed to the feel of the new tires or tire combination, find the edge and achieve optimum road grip for a range of speed, acceleration and handling uses. Advise your customer to check and adjust to recommended inflation pressure after tires cool for at least three (3) hours following run-in. Remember: New tires will have a very different contact patch and lean-over edge."

 

Note that they say absolutely nothing about the tire breaking in, mold release, or any of the other nonsense that most people quote when talking about new tires.

[outpost22]

Some people go to a parking lot and do tighter and tighter circles.

 

Have you been following me?

 

 

[Kouros]

That should be easy. I've got Santiago canyon in Socal right outside my driveway as well. The stretch of twisties is about 20 miles one way to nearest starbucks and I've got a whole weekend to scuff'em :-)

 

Many thanks again.

[russell_bynum]

That should be easy. I've got Santiago canyon in Socal right outside my driveway as well. The stretch of twisties is about 20 miles one way to nearest starbucks and I've got a whole weekend to scuff'em :-)

 

Many thanks again.

 

You're not going to get any real lean angles on Santiago Canyon unless you're going just silly fast. But...if that represents a normal ride for you, then that'll be just fine.

 

For me...Live Oak Canyon would be more my cup of tea.

[Peter Parts]

All good, if grandparently-like, guidance. But two more thoughts.

 

1. In addition to mold release, often shops slather soapy water on the rims when installing. I am really glad to see rain puddles on the road to help wash off whatever coatings... OK, not on curves.

 

2. The BIG factor is the tire in relation to temperature. Up here with riding in serious winter temperatures, sporty high-grippy tires (love 'em) are deadly ungrippy in the cold. But more touristy tires don't vary nearly as much between cold and running temperatures. And that applies also to riding your cold tires out of the shop.

 

A thoughtful biker needs to have a good concept of the tire-temperature system (including the feedback self-regulation aspect) because so much that is critical to high-class riding depends on it.

 

Ben

still spring in Toronto (but rainy this week); we are lucky to have a bike tire specialist here, Ted Rose; I'm really happy with my Bridgestone BT023's - contemporary and a truly sport-touring tire.

[russell_bynum]

1. In addition to mold release, often shops slather soapy water on the rims when installing. I am really glad to see rain puddles on the road to help wash off whatever coatings... OK, not on curves.

 

Sounds like a good reason to DIY.

 

 

2. The BIG factor is the tire in relation to temperature. Up here with riding in serious winter temperatures, sporty high-grippy tires (love 'em) are deadly ungrippy in the cold. But more touristy tires don't vary nearly as much between cold and running temperatures. And that applies also to riding your cold tires out of the shop.

 

True Dat. Here's a video I shot at Streets of Willow a few years ago. Temp was in the high 20's and it had been in the low teens overnight, so the track temp was still very cold. d00d ahead of me is running DOT race tires. I was running sport/street tires (Pilot Power). This was the first lap of the day. As you can see...we were all tiptoeing around. As soon as he got on the throttle (very lightly) after turning into T3, the rear spun up and he was down.

 

Even two laps later, I was still having small front-end slides...just couldn't get heat into the tires.

 

Race tires give you much more grip and generally let go more gently than street tires, but it is harder/takes longer to get them up to operating temp and until you do, there's very little grip.

[tallman]

When I worked in BMW Sales I e-mailed the various tire companies about this topic.

I got several replies.

Now the replies were very similar, perhaps, cya, but, the replies were from people who developed tires.

All of them emphasized mileage and heat cycles.

 

Now I also believe in high speed balancing of mc tires so I

have a different POV then some.

 

Not looking for another go round on that, or this topic either.

 

But, anecdotal experiences are just that and many folks are very happy with what the do wrt to tire mounting/balancing/break in.

YMMV.

Best wishes.

[russell_bynum]

But, anecdotal experiences are just that and many folks are very happy with what the do wrt to tire mounting/balancing/break in.

 

That's been my biggest gripe with this topic (and the balancing topic as well, btw)...everyone seems to have their own way of doing it, but there's very little fact/data to back any of it up.

 

I also recall that manufacturers used to talk about getting a couple of heat cycles through the tires before they'd give you maximum grip. Nobody is saying that anymore...and I don't know if that's because:

1. It was always just BS (or the difference was so small that it didn't really matter.)

2. New tire tech invalidates that advice

3. Someone's bloodsucking lawyer told them not to say it anymore because they're afraid someone might do something stupid.

 

As for the mileage advice...that never made sense to me because all miles are not created equal. A mile of cruising is going to put much different loads on the tire than a mile of drag racing and hard braking...or a mile at the race track. The Dunlop advice posted above says that the miles are for the rider to get used to the feel of new tires vs. old tires and doesn't say anything about the tires themselves needing miles.

 

Another example: Some folks scuff their tires with sandpaper or scotchbright pads. Is there any logical reason to do that? Does scuffing improve grip and if so, how much?

 

Balancing...I don't do it and haven't had any problems. I know several other people with similar stories. Some people get really anal about doing it. Some just do the static balancing. Some think you need a high-speed balance. But there's little (no?) actual data on why it is/isn't important and what does/doesn't happen if you do/don't do it.

 

There's just an awful lot of folklore and hokuspokus (not to mention legalese) and very little actual facts....which is really frustrating.

[wbrissette]

2. New tire tech invalidates that advice

 

I honestly think this is the answer. If you look at how tires are made today versus even just 10 years ago, the materials and manufacturing process have changed. In some cases, by quite a bit. I would wager this more than anything else is why they don't talk about heat cycles anymore.

 

Wayne

[Peter Parts]

 

Balancing...I don't do it and haven't had any problems. I know several other people with similar stories. Some people get really anal about doing it. Some just do the static balancing. Some think you need a high-speed balance. But there's little (no?) actual data on why it is/isn't important and what does/doesn't happen if you do/don't do it.

 

While I appreciate your common-sense approach to other tire issues and your "evidence-based" attitude towards tire balancing... I try not to be too glib when urging riders to a course of action that could be fatal.

 

Even if hair-raising and bowel-emptying speed wobbles are not as common as with earlier tires and spoked wheels or the consequences of bad balance just discomfort and wear to bike and parts, OK'ing balance and the goodness of mounting when on a balance rig seems a necessary check before riding off on new tires.

 

While I am anything but anal about many aspects of bike upkeep, I am absolutely compulsive about ensuring my wheels are as finely dynamically balanced as I possibly can get them and sometimes check balance on my home rig along their life time.

 

Anybody who doubts the value of fine balance must drive their car with thick mittens on.

 

But I agree with Russel, that I haven't seen any evidence one way or the other, and I'd like too see some too.

 

Ben

[russell_bynum]

 

Balancing...I don't do it and haven't had any problems. I know several other people with similar stories. Some people get really anal about doing it. Some just do the static balancing. Some think you need a high-speed balance. But there's little (no?) actual data on why it is/isn't important and what does/doesn't happen if you do/don't do it.

 

While I appreciate your common-sense approach to other tire issues and your "evidence-based" attitude towards tire balancing... I try not to be too glib when urging riders to a course of action that could be fatal.

 

Even if hair-raising and bowel-emptying speed wobbles are not as common as with earlier tires and spoked wheels or the consequences of bad balance just discomfort and wear to bike and parts, OK'ing balance and the goodness of mounting when on a balance rig seems a necessary check before riding off on new tires.

 

While I am anything but anal about many aspects of bike upkeep, I am absolutely compulsive about ensuring my wheels are as finely dynamically balanced as I possibly can get them and sometimes check balance on my home rig along their life time.

 

Anybody who doubts the value of fine balance must drive their car with thick mittens on.

 

But I agree with Russel, that I haven't seen any evidence one way or the other, and I'd like too see some too.

 

Ben

 

I've absolutely felt it when I lose a wheel weight in the car.

 

But did you see this: http://bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=701387&an=

 

In a nutshell...I discovered that the weight on the rear of my Tuono was missing. Took the bike through basically it's entire speed range. No issues at all.

 

Mitch's theory is that the side/side imbalance on a car wheel that you really feel, not the up/down since that's presumably absorbed by the suspension. On a moto wheel, it's narrow enough that side/side balance isn't really an issue.

 

I was completely dumbfounded that the bike showed no ill behavior with no wheel weights at all....but that is in fact what happened.

 

I'm half tempted to pry the weight off the front and go for a ride to see if having an imbalanced front makes any difference.

[Nice n Easy Rider]

I'm half tempted to pry the weight off the front and go for a ride to see if having an imbalanced front makes any difference.

Go ahead Russell - do it. After all, a true scientist should always be willing to experiment on themselve first.

[tallman]

Russell,

What some people confuse is a balanced tire and no effect from an unbalanced tire.

Those are two different things.

If I shoot at a target and miss that doesn't mean the bullet won't impact somewhere else.

Not arguing w/you, and the manufacturer replies I got were from about 3-4 years ago and tires have undergone changes.

 

But, I've seen more people go down w/brand new tires (that had been run around a parking lot, run in spirals, run over a short road course, and not all of them were noobs, so not everyone can tever the reason.just do that and ride off, for whatever the reason.

 

There are parts of my tires that never get worn and I'm no expert but I've seen thousands of new tires balanced, installed, and ridden away on and for the life of me I can't figure why some go down.

This includes noobs, experienced riders, new bikes w/original tires and 10 miles on them, new tires on new bikes and new tires on older bikes.

I've seen folks w/police training go down, riders who can literally ride circles around me go down so it is something that I try to imrove the odds on wrt everyone.

Best wishes.

[Witch_Doctor]

3. Someone's bloodsucking lawyer told them not to say it anymore because they're afraid someone might do something stupid.

 

Ding, ding, ding

[russell_bynum]

Russell,

What some people confuse is a balanced tire and no effect from an unbalanced tire.

Those are two different things.

If I shoot at a target and miss that doesn't mean the bullet won't impact somewhere else.

 

Very true.

 

In the thread I linked earlier...Andy suggested that an out of balance tire would cause your shocks to wear faster. I understand the logic there...but the shocks on my RT didn't seem to need a rebuild and more often than other folks. Of course...there's tons of variables in that equation so that might not really mean anything.

 

 

 

But, I've seen more people go down w/brand new tires (that had been run around a parking lot, run in spirals, run over a short road course, and not all of them were noobs, so not everyone can tever the reason.just do that and ride off, for whatever the reason.

 

There are parts of my tires that never get worn and I'm no expert but I've seen thousands of new tires balanced, installed, and ridden away on and for the life of me I can't figure why some go down.

This includes noobs, experienced riders, new bikes w/original tires and 10 miles on them, new tires on new bikes and new tires on older bikes.

I've seen folks w/police training go down, riders who can literally ride circles around me go down so it is something that I try to imrove the odds on wrt everyone.

Best wishes.

 

I hear you. I wish we had better data on this stuff. It's pretty obvious that the "new tires are deadly slippery" is an anomaly since so many people don't have problems. I'd love to see an investigation of tires in a "new tire crash" scenario.

 

Likewise with balancing. What's really going on and what happens if you don't balance your tires?

 

Lacking any real data we're stuck with folklore and witchcraft.

[EffBee]

No mold release? Hah!

 

I take a clean rag (which will be trash by the time I'm done), spray it generously with non-chlorinated degreaser (brake cleaner) and firmly wipe the surface of the mounted tire. Black crap comes off the tire and onto the rag. And no, I'm not stripping the carbon black out of the tire. It's the mold release (and everything else it's attracted from the moment of mfr to this point in time) and you can physically feel the difference by rubbing your hand over the tire's surface before/after.

 

That takes care of the surface, so I have some decent grip as I set out to get the first heat cycle into the tire. After that (50 hwy miles or 20 in the twisties is what works for me, YMMV), I'm ready to go.