No planned updates for Mapsource, zumo implications

[Sliplake]

A couple of months ago, in a weaker moment, I upgraded my 2010 North America maps to 2012 along with a zumo 550 firmware and Mapsource update. The result – ‘phantom lines’ started appearing in many of my user created routes which was disconcerting when rolling into an intersection and seeing two different lines going out and the Garmin voice saying I should turn left when I should go straight.

 

In turns out that Garmin software developers know this is a problem for zumo users and suggest using BaseCamp. It appears to solve the phantom lines problem but Basecamp was originally intended for outdoor users (Roadtrip to be the software platform for cars & motorcycles), is very clunky (at least in the Windows version), and has its own routing problems (e.g. occasional right turn, u-turn, right turn instead of turning left). In its current version, Basecamp does a poor job with ‘shaping points’ (unannounced viapoints) and POIs. These are all critical functions that support zumo gps and keep us from unwanted announcements from difficulties in placing shaping points, POIs etc. This could be managed in Mapsource but very difficult in Basecamp, at least for me.

 

According to the Garmin software developer at this Linky there are no planned upgrades for Mapsource and the future will be Basecamp for all of their platforms(their market research is saying that users just want one software platform, not several). However, to his credit, there is recognition that they are behind the eight-ball when it comes to designing in zumo functionality to improve Basecamp and are seeking input which can be provided in the above link.

 

What I sense is that there is not a good understanding by Basecamp developers of zumo functionality and needs. If Basecamp is the future then we need to let them know what zumo users need to be maintained and future functionalities.

 

[RockBottom]

I had the same problem but only when I was using a route created on an earlier version of MapSource. Some folks--here I think--suggested that I just open my older routes in MapSource, recalculate them, and save them. That seems to have worked for me and I have not encountered the problem again.

[hopz]

There was an update to the map yesterday... not to the Mapsource version but I have always thought (sensed) that map updates also contained some minor Mapsource tweaks too. Who knows...?

[wbrissette]

So, I'll admit, I haven't used Basecamp in Windows, but did use Mapsource in Windows. I've used Basecamp on the Mac and Mapsource (AKA Bobcat) on the Mac. Maybe I'm the odd man out, or maybe it just works differently/better in Mac OS X than it does in Windows, but I like Basecamp. I like it a lot actually.

 

I'm not sure what features you want that Basecamp doesn't currently have folks don't have, but I don't find the application lacking. I do love DeLorme's Topo software, but that's because I can download additional maps and images that get mapped onto the 3D images, and it has little to do with how well it integrates with the Zumo (Topo doesn't, you have to export .GPX files).

 

So, what's missing in Basecamp for you that is in MapSource? (IGNORE THIS, I just read the initial thread you pointed to on the Garmin site).

 

EDIT: I will say this, as somebody there pointed out, basecamp must work better on the Mac, because I'm quite happy with it. That said, I also never have voice active on any of my GPS devices. I find them highly annoying, so not having the shaping points and putting via points there instead don't seem to bother me.

 

Wayne

[Sliplake]

I had the same problem but only when I was using a route created on an earlier version of MapSource. Some folks--here I think--suggested that I just open my older routes in MapSource, recalculate them, and save them. That seems to have worked for me and I have not encountered the problem again.

 

Yes, I thought that would be a good approach as well. In my case it worked on simple routes but routes that end close to where I start tend to be the most problematic.

 

P.S. I use distinct start and stop points - some thought that might help but can't tell much difference.

 

 

 

[Sliplake]

There was an update to the map yesterday... not to the Mapsource version but I have always thought (sensed) that map updates also contained some minor Mapsource tweaks too. Who knows...?

 

Thanks, I'll update it and see if it makes a difference.

[RockBottom]

I had the same problem but only when I was using a route created on an earlier version of MapSource. Some folks--here I think--suggested that I just open my older routes in MapSource, recalculate them, and save them. That seems to have worked for me and I have not encountered the problem again.

 

Yes, I thought that would be a good approach as well. In my case it worked on simple routes but routes that end close to where I start tend to be the most problematic.

 

P.S. I use distinct start and stop points - some thought that might help but can't tell much difference.

 

 

 

Mine sometimes gets confused when the stop and start point are both in my driveway. Usually if I ignore it and just keep riding, it will straighten up in a quarter mile or so.

 

But all I know is that for me, the problem stopped when I started doing a recalculate within MapSource.

[Sliplake]

So, I'll admit, I haven't used Basecamp in Windows, but did use Mapsource in Windows. I've used Basecamp on the Mac and Mapsource (AKA Bobcat) on the Mac. Maybe I'm the odd man out, or maybe it just works differently/better in Mac OS X than it does in Windows, but I like Basecamp. I like it a lot actually.

 

I'm not sure what features you want that Basecamp doesn't currently have folks don't have, but I don't find the application lacking. I do love DeLorme's Topo software, but that's because I can download additional maps and images that get mapped onto the 3D images, and it has little to do with how well it integrates with the Zumo (Topo doesn't, you have to export .GPX files).

 

So, what's missing in Basecamp for you that is in MapSource? (IGNORE THIS, I just read the initial thread you pointed to on the Garmin site).

 

EDIT: I will say this, as somebody there pointed out, basecamp must work better on the Mac, because I'm quite happy with it. That said, I also never have voice active on any of my GPS devices. I find them highly annoying, so not having the shaping points and putting via points there instead don't seem to bother me. Wayne

 

Yes, from what you and others say, it appears that Basecamp on the Mac is a completely different experience. I've been told that Basecamp was originally designed for a Mac platform and then ported to Windows. I've never been enamored with Mapsource but have found Windows Basecamp very clunky, even for a BETA release. At the moment, I think we have what appears to be a Windows Basecamp developer's attention per zumo needs. Just hope they will act.

 

Of course the other way to look at it is maybe this is a sign telling me I have no other choice but to buy a MAC Air

 

 

[marcopolo]

I used Mapsource on my PC from early 2005 and got quite comfortable with it. A year ago we switched from PC to Mac and I started using Basecamp. At first I did not like it, but now that I've used it for a while I've come to like it. No question that Basecamp is the future for Garmin. That said, as pointed out, Basecamp for PCs does not work quite the same way as it does on a Mac. I have no idea why.

[wbrissette]

I've been told that Basecamp was originally designed for a Mac platform and then ported to Windows. I've never been enamored with Mapsource but have found Windows Basecamp very clunky, even for a BETA release.

 

Oh the irony! For years, developers have ported windows apps to the Mac and they have tended to feel that way. I do recall Basecamp coming out for the Mac before it was available on Windows, so it's possible it's a port (now that modern Macs are running Intel chipsets, porting applications is much easier). Don't give up on it yet. It does seem that somebody at Garmin is listening to you, so you have a chance of getting everything you want in Basecamp. I think if you saw how it worked on the Mac, you wouldn't be quite as harsh on it. It's still missing some of the things you are looking for, but overall it does a better job than anything we've had on the Mac for the Zumo. They just released an update and I feel that update fixed a few more issues I've had with it, making it nearly the perfect product for me.

 

As an aside, I use Topo from DeLorme on Windows and it does some pretty amazing things, but the interface takes a LOT of getting use to. However, being able to look at everything in 3D, and being able to overlay various images and map types over the screen makes that product worth it. Unfortunately, it doesn't interface very cleanly with the Zumo and for me the big knock is it's a Windows only product, so I have to open a VM session to use it. But, obviously that's not an issue for you. It's not that expensive in the scheme of things, so you might want to look at it. The latest version, Topo 9, is suppose to handle routing and roads better (remember it was designed initially for off-road use).

 

Wayne

[FLrider]

I used Mapsource on my PC from early 2005 and got quite comfortable with it. A year ago we switched from PC to Mac and I started using Basecamp.

 

Why? You can run Mapsource on a Mac. Mac has software called Parallel which switches your Mac to Windows mode when you need to run Windows based software. Mapsource works perfectly for me on my Mac.

 

Not sure how Mapsource will phased out in favor of base camp. Mapsource is the dominant software for boaters who use it to store honey holes and routes. Since I am not familiar with Basecamp, does it have "water" based features?

[wbrissette]

a lot of the water-based features you speak of come from the maps themselves, not from the display software. Basecamp, as was pointed out, initially sprung up as the software for their hand-held GPS systems using in hiking and biking, etc. But, the big thing is the maps. I don't have any of the newer topographical maps, just the older one Garmin use to sell, but I often switch maps between the typical road maps and the Topo maps especially if I'm planning a trip that runs through or near parks. The Topo software (even the older 2008 version from Garmin) has some display features and markings that the latest road map software in the Zumo doesn't have.

 

Boaters shouldn't have any problems using Basecamp as long as it works smoothly. I haven't seen the Windows version, but it sounds like that version is fairly buggy, which is the problem.

 

Wayne

[RockBottom]

You guys inspired me to install Basecamp but it's using the same map set as MapSource. No topos.

[wbrissette]

You are correct. I had to purchase the topo map set. I did this a few years back and they really weren't that good. Garmin has upgraded the entire Topo map series and you have to purchase those. Once you do however, you can swap back-and-forth between topo and non-topo maps. FYI, you cannot do general routing with the topo maps, you have to use the standard maps to do that.

 

Wayne

[Sliplake]

As an aside, I use Topo from DeLorme on Windows and it does some pretty amazing things, but the interface takes a LOT of getting use to. However, being able to look at everything in 3D, and being able to overlay various images and map types over the screen makes that product worth it. Unfortunately, it doesn't interface very cleanly with the Zumo and for me the big knock is it's a Windows only product, so I have to open a VM session to use it.

 

Wayne, could you elaborate more when you say the DeLorme topo maps don't interface well with the zumo? How do the DeLorme topo maps compare with Garmin's topo maps?

[Sliplake]

You guys inspired me to install Basecamp but it's using the same map set as MapSource. No topos.

 

and ... will you be using Basecamp in the future? One thing I did like is that the route lines are not as thick compared to Mapsource.

[RockBottom]

You guys inspired me to install Basecamp but it's using the same map set as MapSource. No topos.

 

and ... will you be using Basecamp in the future? One thing I did like is that the route lines are not as thick compared to Mapsource.

 

It remains to be seen. At this point I'm not sure there's enough of an advantage to climb the learning curve.

[wbrissette]

Wayne, could you elaborate more when you say the DeLorme topo maps don't interface well with the zumo? How do the DeLorme topo maps compare with Garmin's topo maps?

 

You can export your route from DeLorme Topo maps as GPX files, but that's pretty much it. No syncing to your device, etc. from the software itself to any Garmin device. You can sync to one of their handheld PN devices however.

 

As far as maps go, I've put together a small sample for you.

 

This is the St. George UT area from both programs.

 

Delorme Topo:

 

 

Garmin Topo 2008:

 

 

You can also purchase a subscription for DeLorme that allows you to download US Topo paper maps and images from various sources that you can overlay onto your maps. The results are pretty cool and really let you "see" what you have coming up on your trip.

 

[Sliplake]

You can export your route from DeLorme Topo maps as GPX files, but that's pretty much it. No syncing to your device, etc. from the software itself to any Garmin device. You can sync to one of their handheld PN devices however.

 

Very helpful, thanks for the showing the contrast. I like the DeLorme Topo maps much better.

 

I've noted that with BaseCamp they have a "Birdseye view" option now available. Do you have any experience with their 3D offerings? (I'm assuming it's their version of what DeLorme is offering)

 

[Scarecrow]

Is there any tutorial/guide/book for dummies on Delorme's mapping? I used to use Topo! and I find the maps much more straightforward. Of course they are much simpler being pretty much your standard topo map. Delorme obviously has much more to it, but with Topo I could just drag my cursor to form a route. And then it would generate waypoints and I could load the whole thing into my etrex.

 

I went the Delorme route when I got a PN60-w and Spot. But I'm having a hard time figuring it out. (and I've never gotten the Spot to work and their customer support isn't). I'd appreciate any hints/tips you can share.

 

TIA,

(and I apologize for semi-hijacking the thread)

[wbrissette]

Scarecrow. I'm not aware of any books. However, searching Youtube, you'll find a bunch of tutorials people have put together.

 

Here's just one example:

 

 

The problem really is that Topo was designed for people who use topographical software all the time, not for the casual user. It would be nice if they had an "expert" mode and an "casual user" mode. I haven't looked at all the tutorials on Youtube, but some of the titles look pretty interesting.

 

Sliplake: I haven't used Garmin's 3D offerings, so I can't give you any insight into those products.

 

Wayne

 

 

[Nesbocaj]

I used Basecamp and Topo for a ride through the Catskill area of New York yesterday. I like it