I'm pissed off at Garmin

[bobbybob]

After reading several recent Garmin related posts, which echo what I have been sensing, I feel the need to vent. Does anyone else see this or is it just me?

 

1) Garmin is losing sight of the motorcycling market. They don't understand our wants and needs.

 

2) They are discontinuing superb units such as the GPSMAP 478 (series) with hard buttons, and replacing with touch screen units.

 

3) They are taking cheaply made touch-screen automobile units, adding a few rubber gaskets and rebranding as a "Motorcycle Friendly" unit. At a *premium* price.

 

4) There are many new glitches popping up in their software and hardware, most relating to those who create their own routes. Garmin thinks most everyone just wants a "tell me the quickest way from A to B type of functionality".

 

5) Their future marketing strategy seems to be: "Our customer base is dumber than a bunch of stumps so lets dumb these units down as much as possible. I mean, who really needs to know altitude or be able to customize screens?"

 

6) They are not listening to us any more. There are more layers of talking heads with little actual knowledge that insulate their development people from their base.

 

I have loved Garmin and their customer service for many years. But I see a new direction. Their competition is nil. Maybe thats the problem.

[RockBottom]

I've had my ups and downs with them. They annoyed me a couple of years ago when my unit was adding shortcuts and detours on its own and Garmin support's answer was "that can't be happening."

 

But they got me back recently when my Zumo flew out of its mount as I accelerated and bounced along the road. Garmin could have just said it's my fault since I didn't lock it into the mount correctly, but they did a warranty replacement.

 

I did like the real zoom buttons on my old 450 better than the touch screen on my current 220.

[bobbybob]

I've had my ups and downs with them. They annoyed me a couple of years ago when my unit was adding shortcuts and detours on its own and Garmin support's answer was "that can't be happening."

 

But they got me back recently when my Zumo flew out of its mount as I accelerated and bounced along the road. Garmin could have just said it's my fault since I didn't lock it into the mount correctly, but they did a warranty replacement.

 

I did like the real zoom buttons on my old 450 better than the touch screen on my current 220.

 

OK, we're kinda on the same page. But that mount problem was a known Garmin flaw in the mount design wasn't it?

[wbrissette]

Bobbybob, I think the issue Garmin is facing is the dumbing down and general elimination of the GPS market in general. As more and more people get smart phones with GPS technology or quasi-GPS technology, Garmin is facing losing a large market.

 

Unless Garmin decides they want to focus on narrow groups (boaters, cyclists, hunters, etc.), I think we're going to continue seeing the dumbing down you're describing. My feeling is if they do focus on the narrow markets we'll see higher prices since they won't be able to make money on the larger consumer market.

 

FYI, I like my GarminPhone... used the GPS the other day when I was in a town I wasn't familiar with and needed to find a street. It took me right there. Unfortunately Garmin decided to get out of the phone market after just a couple of models.

 

Wayne

[Mike]

The best GPS I currently own is the TomTom app on my iPhone. I have to agree with the OP's basic sentiment. As GPS maker's have striven to make their products universally appealing, they've made them dumber. The programmability of the units that were available a few years ago made them much better tools for me than what seems to be currently available.

[RockBottom]

I've had my ups and downs with them. They annoyed me a couple of years ago when my unit was adding shortcuts and detours on its own and Garmin support's answer was "that can't be happening."

 

But they got me back recently when my Zumo flew out of its mount as I accelerated and bounced along the road. Garmin could have just said it's my fault since I didn't lock it into the mount correctly, but they did a warranty replacement.

 

I did like the real zoom buttons on my old 450 better than the touch screen on my current 220.

 

OK, we're kinda on the same page. But that mount problem was a known Garmin flaw in the mount design wasn't it?

 

I don't think so. I'd just made a Red Bull stop and just didn't re-seat it correctly. And I believe RAM makes the mount.

[RockBottom]

The best GPS I currently own is the TomTom app on my iPhone. I have to agree with the OP's basic sentiment. As GPS maker's have striven to make their products universally appealing, they've made them dumber. The programmability of the units that were available a few years ago made them much better tools for me than what seems to be currently available.

 

Can you design a route on the computer with the TomTom?

 

Using the GPS on my Droid would be a hassle. With the GPS running, the battery life is a couple of hours.

[bobbybob]

The best GPS I currently own is the TomTom app on my iPhone. I have to agree with the OP's basic sentiment. As GPS maker's have striven to make their products universally appealing, they've made them dumber. The programmability of the units that were available a few years ago made them much better tools for me than what seems to be currently available.

 

Can you design a route on the computer with the TomTom?

 

Using the GPS on my Droid would be a hassle. With the GPS running, the battery life is a couple of hours.

 

Same here--have a Droid, its GPS is great for finding an address in a city, but totally useless for GPS nav. on a motorcycle.

[realshelby]

I don't see the smart phone apps eliminating the desire for a good, full size, functional GPS unit for the bike or car. I have several Garmin units. After paying the "premium" price for a couple of them what disappoints me most is the lack a durability. I am on my (3) Zumo 550 for instance. Sure, they offer you a reduction off their $150 service charge for out of warranty units ( $100 for the last two ) but I don't think the failure rate is acceptable. I have a NUVI 1490 for the truck and the bluetooth package for the phone is a joke compared to the way the C550 Garmins are ( I have 3 of those ). Don't know if it is "dumbing down" but I paid for a premium unit that....isn't!

[Smoky]

I just replaced my 10 year old Quest with a Nuvi.

 

The old Quest screen was readable in all light conditions, not so the Nuvi, it washes out in direct light. How can this screen technology go backwards?

 

I miss several of the screen menus, especially elevation.

 

And I can't toggle out, and see the names of upcoming towns identified on my Nuvi.

 

I like the big screen, and a few of the new things, but I'm disappointed in loosing some of the features of the Quest.

 

I sure don't miss loading maps into the Quest. What a pain that was.

[Ken H.]

Their competition is nil. Maybe thats the problem.

Quite the contrary, I think their competition is really stiff. GPS technology is appearing in everything everywhere.

 

Their high-end avionics (comms, flight decks) and professional marine navigation (comm., sonar, radar) lines are still solid, but they recognize that the days of the dedicated (consumer) GPS device is largely over. Us users of those products are seeing effects of that, but who’s to blame them? Focus on the G5000 glass cockpit line that sells for 100s of 100s of dollars, or $149 consumer handhelds. What would you do as CEO?

 

I worked for them in the early days and owned the stock for a few years when they went public. But I got out in late 2007 and it’s been lack-luster ever sense. They’ve got a tough road ahead of them IMHO.

 

[bobbybob]

Agreed, Garmin has been strong in avionics since the dawn of GPS and will continue to be. What I meant was, as far as the stand-alone units we are discussing, Garmin owns the market--albeit a declining market. And as they continue to lose focus on their base their business will continue to decline even further. Can avionics alone support them? Dunno--maybe you do.

 

But bottom line *for me* is, when my 478 dies, there's not a Garmin unit available today I would/could replace it with.

[Albert]

I know what you mean Smoky. I replaced my Quest with a 2820. While the large bright screen on the 2820 is nice, I really miss being able to pick from around 40 different items to display in the trip computer fields.

[Sliplake]

Agreed, Garmin has been strong in avionics since the dawn of GPS and will continue to be. What I meant was, as far as the stand-alone units we are discussing, Garmin owns the market--albeit a declining market. And as they continue to lose focus on their base their business will continue to decline even further. Can avionics alone support them? Dunno--maybe you do.

 

But bottom line *for me* is, when my 478 dies, there's not a Garmin unit available today I would/could replace it with.

 

I have a similar sentiment. My foray into GPS was with the zumo 550 and as I listen to others who have newer models, I can only hope this one will last. Out of necessity I now know more about the operating system than I ever wanted to as a user. That plus recent problems when I tried to upgrade and update maps, Mapsource and the zumo, leading to multiple exchanges with Garmin, leaves me to believe that there isn't a good understanding of functionalities, capacities and different users needs across platforms or units by their developers. I only hope that their quest to streamline doesn't wring out the critical functionality that originally attracted me.

 

What it means for me as a consumer is that I won't be buying any newer units or upgrades until I'm convinced that they won't be anything more than a generic provider of GPS units and maps. In the meantime, I'll start paying more attention to what others are doing - hopefully it won't be race to find the lowest common denominator.

[Steve Kolenda]

The screen on the 665 is unreadable under too many lighting conditions. For the money this is a huge disapointment.

[steveknapp]

Their competition is nil. Maybe thats the problem.

Quite the contrary, I think their competition is really stiff. GPS technology is appearing in everything everywhere...

 

Agreed, the in vehicle nav market is tough. Not only compared to other devices, but against phones and in-dash units as well.

 

They are doing very well in the other markets last I looked. Their fitness products are quite good as well, tho even that market is getting more crowded.

 

http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2010/11/fitness-related-analysis-from-garmin-q3.html

 

Oh, also know that Garmin takes Twitter/Facebook pretty seriously. If you want to gripe, maybe a tweet will help more than a post here?

 

http://twitter.com/#!/Garmin

[markgoodrich]

We've been using the Garmin 376c and the Google Maps nav on the Droid, all over Seattle and Washington, and on the way here. The Garmin will find a place and direct us, but the Droid's directions are much more precise and clear, although the lady inside does need to work on her diction. The Droid of course is useless for creating my own route, but I bet it won't be long before I can do so, just as I can with google maps on my laptop. For all I know, I can create a google maps route and dump it into the Droid...I haven't bothered trying, nor will I.

 

With the Droid I can listen to music in the car, on the Droid, and the lady interrupts to direct me. The Droid lady does that, too .

[bobbybob]

I agree, the spoken directions on the Droid are excellent for finding an address. But until it is waterproof, has hard buttons, supports routing, and robust enough to withstand constant vibration, it just won't replace your 376C....will it?

[markgoodrich]

I agree, the spoken directions on the Droid are excellent for finding an address. But until it is waterproof, has hard buttons, supports routing, and robust enough to withstand constant vibration, it just won't replace your 376C....will it?

 

Of course not. I was really addressing the points made that the market is changing very rapidly, and Garmin sees the light; not much point in engineering and production of a vanishing market.

[Little Joe]

Don't recall where I learned this, but it works (mostly)...

 

Develop your route in Google Maps. Use lots of waypoints (reason to follow). When you are satisfied with the route, email it to yourself. Open the email on your Droid. At the bottom of the email is a link that says "Show on Google Maps". Your custom map is now loaded into the Google Navigation app on your Droid. Hit the Nav arrow and you're off. It is that quick and easy.

 

The "mostly" caveat originates with my New Mexico trip last month. The ride out with my son was leisurely (5 days), but his KTM's water pump FUBAR'd in Santa Fe, and apparently no one in NM is qualified to fix big KTMs. He U-Hauled it home and I rode home by my lonesome in 2-1/2 days. The first day I plotted out a Santa Fe-to-Grand Canyon route and loaded it on the Droid. While the directions were accurate i.e. what I had created, the NAV app wouldn't follow them for some reason. It actually tried to send me in the opposite direction. I've had it happen since on longer routes back in CA (300+ miles). Don't know what the issue is, and I sure won't call Motorola or Google. But there doesn't seem to be a problem on shorter routes.

 

The reason for the multiple waypoints is it keeps the Nav app synced to your custom route. If you have only an origin and destination, you risk losing the custom route the first time you miss a turn and the app re-routes. If you use more waypoints the worst-case scenario is you won't re-sync until the next waypoint. Sometimes I've had to exit the Nav app and re-start to get synced up again from my current position.

 

All of which is a typically long-winded explanation for what I'm doing on a GPS thread, looking for product guidance. The droid is at the mercy of cell service.

[RockBottom]

The droid is at the mercy of cell service.

 

Not only that, but I've found that a couple of hours using the navigator completely drains the battery on my Droid II.

[wbrissette]

The droid is at the mercy of cell service.

 

Not only that, but I've found that a couple of hours using the navigator completely drains the battery on my Droid II.

 

Which is what I like/liked about the GarminFone. It came with a car adapter (which you could adapt for a bike) that would allow you power the unit from the accessory plug. However, it didn't accept routes so you are at its mercy for routing. I also don't like the idea of having my phone and GPS as a single unit. Especially if you decide to do a bit of off-roading (intentional or not! -- on my recent western US trip, my Garmin GPS put me on a couple of non-paved roads that made me a firm believer that an 800 lbs bike is not a dirt bike regardless of what the advertising may say).

 

Wayne

[RockBottom]

I'm not a big fan of fusing functions in general. I want a separate smart phone, GPS, and Ipod. But several times I've gone for rides out of state with the navigation on on my Droid, and it's drained by mid afternoon.

 

Plus I'm hesitant about designing routes in Google Maps and uploading them. I find it very squirrelly for long routes. I tried to design a five day ride I'm planning for late September in it just to post on my blog. I couldn't get it to do what I wanted after dozens of attempts. It's adamantly opposed to me riding the Blue Ridge Parkway.

[Glenn Reed]

It's adamantly opposed to me riding the Blue Ridge Parkway.

 

That's a good enough reason not to use it right there!

[thencamebronson]

I really like the 2730, particularly the Bluetooth function. I could pair theiPhone with the 2730, then pair the 2730 with my Scala Q2. I plugged my iPod into the Scala mount and everything was seamless. Music from iPod faded for phone calls, which showed up on GPS screen, and GPS instructions. Then just before a trip I plugged my 2730 into the PC to take some MP3's off of it. The Bluetoothe function died after I unplugged the unit. Several calls and emails to Garmin later, Bluetooth is still inop and I now know that Garmin "no longer supports this unit".

 

 

[nbooth]

The Zumo 550 was produced with very little memory..something like 2GB. Today, North American maps wont fit into the unit which necessitates an SD memory solution. Memory is cheap and I'm at a loss to understand why the unit was produced with so little memory.

 

Something like this should never happen with GPS units. I'm disappointed with Garmin in this respect. I do believe that if they have any future in the GPS market they will have to become niche experts in fitness, motorcycling, etc..

[thencamebronson]

In my post I meant 2820. D'oh.