GS-911 Counterfeit, Funny and Sad at the same time

[12R12RT]

GS-911s are being counterfeited in China. Here's a link to an e-Bay Buy-It-Now.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PROMOTION-PRICE-BMW-Motorcycles-GS911-USB-version-5-WACTH-LIST-/170707148157?pt=Motors_Automotive_Tools&vxp=mtr&hash=item27bef05d7d

 

It's funny in that the counterfeit is being sold for a benjie more than the real deal and shipping is another benjie!

 

Sad that Hexcode's work is being ripped off.

 

http://www.hexcode.co.za/products/gs-911/counterfeit

 

Tom

[Kathy R]

Wow, a whole 7 day return policy

[Nesbocaj]

GS-911s are being counterfeited in China. Here's a link to an e-Bay Buy-It-Now.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PROMOTION-PRICE-BMW-Motorcycles-GS911-USB-version-5-WACTH-LIST-/170707148157?pt=Motors_Automotive_Tools&vxp=mtr&hash=item27bef05d7d

 

It's funny in that the counterfeit is being sold for a benjie more than the real deal and shipping is another benjie!

 

Sad that Hexcode's work is being ripped off.

 

http://www.hexcode.co.za/products/gs-911/counterfeit

 

Tom

 

 

...and $99 shipping! Stinkers!

[12R12RT]

Yep, for only $500 you can get a poor quality counterfeit unit, very risky and questionable code, and no support, warranty, or upgrade capability.

 

That's only $200 more than the real deal.

 

What's worrisome is what will happen when the cheap fakes show up.

 

Ya gotta be dumb to buy this one, but I can see folks buying a cheap one. Some will know they are buying counterfeit, some won't.

 

Tom

[David13]

Stephan had already sent out word about this. Remember the old adage, Buyer Beware.

Caveat Emptor.

I would suspect that if you hook this thing up to your bike, it might explode.

dc

[Alfred02]

There is at least one person that got caught out with one.

He posted on the GS-911 Website as he couldn't get his to work.

[DiggerJim]

There's a "Report Item" link right side, mid-page of the ebay listing. Click it and report it as a counterfeit. That should get it pulled.

 

[Brian Louw]

There's a "Report Item" link right side, mid-page of the ebay listing. Click it and report it as a counterfeit. That should get it pulled.

I clicked the Report Item and reported it with a link to the hexcode site. If you buy one of these, good luck with support, updates, etc.

[VTBeemer]

Last month, I saw an ad for a GS-911for $249, but when I looked at the Web Site the BS meter went into the orange zone. Sent off an email and when I got the "Hello dear firend" the BS Meter went into the Red Zone.

Sent my concerns to the Hexcode folks, but never got a reply if they were an authorized dealer with poor English skills. Email exchange below.

- VTBeemer

 

From: sales02 [mailto:sales02@auobd2.com]

Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2011 9:21 PM

To: Patrick Russell

Subject: Re: GS911 Tool

 

Hello dear firend

 

Have a nice day.

The software version is V10.6.

Yes, you will get bran-new items, but we need to open the box to confirm the item is in good condition before the shipping, is it ok for you? Pls understand

 

Kindly regards

Susan

 

2011-09-23

GS911 Tool

If ordered today, what is the software version that would come with it?

Please verify they are new out of unopened boxes.

Thanks Pat

 

[SuperG]

There is an other ebay listing starting at $250

 

$250 GS-911

[Kathy R]

There is an other ebay listing starting at $250

 

$250 GS-911

 

I reported that one to Ebay. Thanks for the heads up.

[GRB60]

Here's my exchange:

 

 

Dear kanbaros,

 

The GS-911 is not made in China. Is this a cheap knockoff priced $200 higher than the real thing? How Will it work without the up to date software from Hexcode?

 

Dear grb1059,

 

i have 2 USA customer order it,no problem,that is good quilty

also the update is newest.so that have a manual to use it

so do not worry for that

 

 

So, not a very good command of the language. Heck, he didn't even get that I was ridiculing him.

 

[Kathy R]

But you have to give *him* kudos that he can somewhat communicate in our and certainly his language. Most of us can't say that.

 

The point isn't his intellect so much as it is the fact that he's ethically bankrupt from our viewpoint. From his viewpoint, not so much. THAT is the bit that is worrisome about the future of right and wrong, by our societies definition.

[bobbybob]

Did you see his "Buletooth Autocom" (sic) for $300 ?

[philbytx]

Amen Kathy,

 

Most folks do not realize that the Chinese, in general, do not subscribe to common Western business practices/ethics !

 

 

[Mike]

Amen Kathy,

 

Most folks do not realize that the Chinese, in general, do not subscribe to common Western business practices/ethics !

 

 

I think many here would be surprised how much of the admins' time is consumed by trying to catch and block spammers operating out of China. It's a constant game of cat and mouse.

 

And, if I might slip in an advertisement here, I'd note that there's a "Notify" button at the bottom of each post. Each of you is hereby deputized as a spam catcher; if you see a spammer creep in, just let us know by clicking that button and typing in a brief description of what you've noted . . . a notification goes to each administrator, which really helps us in trying to stay on top of the issue.

[jviss]

This is very interesting, from an intellectual property perspective, and also a trade law perspective. It's complicated, too, because it is international. I think it's a shame that the originator's work is copied, or cloned. One might point out, though, that copying is not strictly against the law. I would like to know what intellectual property protections Hex have availed themselves of. Are there any patents, copyrights, trademarks, etc.? Without patents, copyrights, and trademarks, the copying may indeed be entirely legal. Surely pretending that it's a Hex product, and marking the box and product and literature to make the customer think it's a product made by Hex is counterfeiting. But just copying the product is not.

 

Are the copiers just copying the software, or have they produced their own? Are they offering the "professional" or "enthusiast" versions of the product?

 

In addition, one might also observe that minimum resale price maintenance is illegal in South Africa and in many other countries, and the Hex website alludes to this practice on their counterfeit page.

[12R12RT]

I think Kathy nailed it best and most concisely.

 

One's perception is one's reality. Our perception is that making a knock-off is stealing, and the laws surrounding copyright, trademark, and patent are but fine points.

 

Their perception is that making a knock-off is an opportunity.

 

Me, I'm just gonna keep reporting these items to e-Bay. They may not take any action, but it's the right thing for me to do.

 

Tom

[jviss]

Well, that is as if to say that patent, copyright, and trademark laws have no purpose.

 

As a developer of intellectual property I will staunchly defend the IP rights Hex might have. And, I am not too crazy about the outright flaunting of international IP law that China engages in (90% of Microsoft software that the government of China uses is pirated).

 

However, I am not inclined to grant exclusivity of market access to someone just because they are the biggest, or got there first.

 

That said, the only one on eBay at this moment has "Hex" on the shipping carton in the picture, so they are pretending it's a Hex product, which is clearly wrong.

 

 

[12R12RT]

Well, that is as if to say that patent, copyright, and trademark laws have no purpose....

 

 

No, that is most definitely not what I said.

 

Tom

[jviss]

Maybe I misinterpreted your comment. What is it that you are saying?

[12R12RT]

John -

 

Simply that in our (American) culture when we see a copy of someone's work being offered for sale most people in our culture see that as a rip-off*, and don't lose sleep over calling it that.

 

It may well be that the manufacturer, through lack of wherewithal or simply time, does not have the protection of trademark, copyright, patent, and so on. Thus it may well be that the copy is a legal one. Or perhaps it is better said it is not an illegal one.

 

But, in our culture, it is still a rip-off. Thereby the laws governing copyright, trademark, patent, ip, et al become 'fine points'. It doesn't mean they are not there or that they are unimportant, but merely that they do not weigh heavily on our perception of what is a rip-off.

 

It would not be the first time that 'legal' and 'right' were not one and the same.

 

Tom

 

*Not the best choice of words, but at the moment I cannot come up with a better word or phrase.

[jviss]

Thanks for clarifying. I believe I understand what you are saying. I don't necessarily agree with your view, which I hope you understand.

 

The IP laws, particularly the patent law, are there to help both IP developers and the public, in that it is a bargain: disclose how you did something and in return, if it is indeed patentable, you get exclusive use of it for 20 years. This concept was spelled out in Article One of the US Constitution, along with the rationale:

 

The Congress shall have power...To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;

 

To be patentable, generally, the thing must be truly useful, novel, non-obvious to someone skilled in the are, not a simple combination of existing things, and reduced to practice. Otherwise, while you are at liberty to market a product, it is subject to imitation, as this is how the market functions. One cannot expect exclusive access to a market for something that doesn't satisfy the above criteria.

 

Software is often copyrighted. If the clone guys are copying the S/W, this is theft.

 

Likewise, when they use Hex's name, that is likely trademark theft; and even if the name isn't trademarked, it's wrong, as it intentionally misleads or confuses customers, and trades on another's name..

 

[DiggerJim]

This concept was spelled out in Article One of the US Constitution, along with the rationale:

Which applies neither to South Africa or China the last time I checked. If Hex did not acquire foreign patents it may be unsavory to us but not illegal. Their use of "Hex" on their packaging is similarly either protected or not and Caveat Emptor still applies. The world is not bound by our rules simply because we think they should be.

 

On a personal note I still flag them on Ebay because the 1st Amendment does apply to me here

[jviss]

This concept was spelled out in Article One of the US Constitution, along with the rationale:

Which applies neither to South Africa or China the last time I checked. If Hex did not acquire foreign patents it may be unsavory to us but not illegal. Their use of "Hex" on their packaging is similarly either protected or not and Caveat Emptor still applies. The world is not bound by our rules simply because we think they should be.

 

On a personal note I still flag them on Ebay because the 1st Amendment does apply to me here

 

It was an example. There are IP laws everywhere, and many countries harmonize and cooperate.

 

International Patent Treaty

[David13]

Jviss

It's not that they harmonize. That would be the choir.

It's that they must sign and subscribe to the law. I have a strong suspicion, tho' I don't know, that China has never subscribed and signed in.

They are not signatories.

In fact, they probably said 'you can take your effing ip laws, and kiss our rosy red ...'

Well, you know.

But they said it in Chinese so nobody knew what they were saying, except the translator, who probably giggled and blushed and said it wouldn't translate.

dc

[wbrissette]

David... one of the up and coming (actually #2 in the world now) telecom companies is Huawei. They are a customer of the company I work for, yet a competitor in certain circles. One of our on-going problems is their lack of concern for IP and how they acquire it. One would think that a company that is as big and now playing on the international scene would not have these issues, but it's ingrained in the culture from years of non-western contact. Things are starting to change, and they have to change in order for Chinese companies to play on the international marketplaces. However, it's a slow moving process for even big companies. A software piracy report I read in one of the IT computer magazines mentioned nearly 70% of all software on China's government computers was not legal. It's going to take some time, maybe a very long time, but I do believe that the country as a whole will have to endorse and subscribe to international IP laws at some point. They can't afford not to since Chinese companies are becoming major players in the marketplace.

 

The GS-911 is a great tool and Stephan and team have continued to work hard improving it. When you think about the cost of the unit and what you can do with it, what seems like a lot of money ends up saving you money in the long run. Their only achilles heel is Bluetooth and phones, but the BT stack for many of the mobile devices is such a crap shoot that I wouldn't want to have to support BT.

 

Wayne

[David13]

I like my GS911. I used it yesterday.

As long as China is bootlegging patents, trademarks, or copyrights from other countries, China won't much care.

But when other countries start bootlegging from China, after they become the developers, then you will see enforcement.

dc

[SuperG]

"bootlegging from China" would be an oxymoron!

 

I am sure they are just fine leaching off of others' ideas and inventions. Once something/anything becomes successful, popular or there is even a slight demand for it, you can bet there will be a Chinese copy of it.

It is true for other Asian countries as well.

 

When I see a Hyundai that very closely resembles best features of BMW cars (they look so alike that hard to tell from a distance) it makes me puke.

[jviss]

I kinda regret chiming in on this, but I want to make it clear, that I'm not advocating stealing; I'm not saying that IP laws will work against Chinese in China. I'm just saying that there's nothing illegal or even wrong with copying, as long as you're not stealing. Using someone else's trademark, producing a product that's patented without a license, copying someone's copyrighted software are all stealing. Where the IP protection helps is in import - you can often stop and/or seize goods coming in that are in violation of IP laws. But if you put something out there that's not patentable, or not patented or otherwise protected, you can't reasonably cry foul. It's like saying "Hey, I was the first hot dog wagon here, you can't sell hot dogs too, you're copying me!"

 

I find it somewhat amusing when vendors post strong messages about copying, counterfeiting, reverse engineering, etc., when their product exists only because they reverse engineered some other system.

 

In addition, while resale price maintenance is now generally legal in the US, this is not the case in every country, including South Africa. But, if you only sell direct, it's not an issue.

 

Finally, why doesn't Hex just sell on eBay? That way it would be clear that you can get the genuine, supported article at a better price, and would have a better chance of sweeping the counterfeits off eBay.

 

I would probably buy the Hex product if I needed it, but with an R1100RT and Motronic 2.2, "blink codes" via jumper leads and a voltmeter work fine for me. ANd, even though the functions are far fewer with the 'RT, you have to spend another $50(!!!) for a three pin adapter.

 

Comments on the GS-911:

- I wish there was only one version of the product, not an enthusiast and pro;

- I would like the option of USB to a smartphone - BT isn't always the most reliable thing;

- No iPhone/iPad support. I use an iPhone. So, I'd have to carry another smart phone, of a laptop to use on the road;

- no Mac support. I use a MacBook. So I'd have to carry a Windows laptop for this (I guess I could run it on Windows on a virtual machine using VM Ware Fusion).

 

 

 

 

[DiggerJim]

- I wish there was only one version of the product, not an enthusiast and pro;

I'm happy there are two. I got the enthusiast version and can upgrade to the pro version when I need it (after enough of my friends register their bike to it) by just paying the delta between the enthusiast & the pro. I save $200 now but still have the option to move up to more than 10 bikes when I need to in a couple/few years.

[David13]

Exactly. I used mine on two bikes today. My old one, and another. The new owner called and wanted a reset on the service date.

I think that gives me 8 bikes in there, so I am about to upgrade.

dc

[RTJohn]

Thanks again, Dave.