Why won't dealer mount tires?

[Michaelr11]

I don't get it. My dealer stopped mounting customer supplied tires and will only mount tires bought there. We're talking about $500 for a pair of sport-touring tires mounted.

 

Now I buy them for about $300 a pair and a local shop mounts them for $20 each. I take the wheel off the bike and bring it to them. I go through two or three sets of tires a year.

 

I would gladly pay $40, per wheel, maybe a bit more for the dealer to do the mounting for me, but they won't. If they were doing this, they would have the chance to observe other maintenance issues and they would get that business from me. Instead, now I'm buying brake pads and changing them myself too. This is service business I woud give to my dealer if he were changing tires.

 

Any dealers on the list that can explain this to me...

 

Michael

2001 R1100RT

[dirtrider]

Morning Michael

 

Their choice to not be placed in a position to mount a tire they have no past history on.

 

If a tire failure occurs they are in the loop for legal action so their choice is to not place themselves in that position.

 

OR, they just don't want to have someone else make the tire sales money with them doing the labor.

 

 

Next time you go to your favorite restaurant stop by a Wall Mart on the way & buy your dinner meat there then ask the restaurant to cook that for your dinner. You might get the same treatment as you got at your local BMW dealer.

 

 

 

[cali_beemer]

I ran into the same thing, the insurance company prohibits it in some cases. Its a liability issue. Many people buy tires on the internet from hole in the wall places. Appearantly some of those places are selling the "blemished" tires. atleast thats how I was explained it by a dealer.

[racer7]

This srt of choice makes pretty clear that a dealership doesn't understand that its primary business is customer service. So I'd also expect crappy warranty help and a generally unhelpful attitude on other stuff and take my business elsewhere.

Any decent restaurant is willing to serve your wine to you with dinner for a simple service (corkage) fee. Tires should be similar. I know of a few places that mount customer tires but charge $10 more- that's fair and reasonable.

 

Not a problem I have personally- there are plenty of places close to me that mount tires for $20 each- a cost low enough that I don't want a tire machine taking up space in my garage. Competition is tight enough and business scarce enough that our local survivors want all the customers they can find- for anything.

[GRB60]

My local BMW dealer has a unique way of dealing with this issue: He sells tire at competitive prices! Pilot Road 3s, front and back, installed on the wheels I brought in, for a little under $400 including 6% tax. Problem solved!

 

Fact is, though, that they don't make any money mounting and balancing tires for $20 or $30. The money is in the tire sale. They'll tell you about liability issues but there is little exposure there. It's about money.

[marcopolo]

My local dealer -- multi-line, including Kawasaki and Triumph -- has the same policy as of a few years ago. While I may not like it, I understand why they do it. The gravy's in the tire sale, not the installation. Would you expect a dealer to do an oil and filter change, with you walking in with the filter and oil in hand? I wouldn't and I don't think it's much different with tires.

[moshe_levy]

Next time you go to your favorite restaurant stop by a Wall Mart on the way & buy your dinner meat there then ask the restaurant to cook that for your dinner. You might get the same treatment as you got at your local BMW dealer.

 

YES, yes, and HELL yes. Exactly correct. To those that think this is poor customers service, as a guy in sales, let me tell you this - they don't need your business. They would rather not have it, and I don't blame them a bit.

 

I've told this story before. I was at the dealer looking around, and a gentleman was there trying on jackets. He must've been there an hour, trying on everything, the salesman waiting on him hand and foot. He left a giant pile of jackets in the dressing room, and eventually left without buying anything. 2 weeks later, they told me, he walked in with new jacket on, that he procured online to save a few bucks. It had a defect, and he wanted some warranty service done on it, since the dealer sold that brand of jacket. When he was gently turned away, he complained loudly about poor customer service.

 

He didn't get it. Some people don't get it. They WOULD get it, if they spent an hour in sales and had an idea about what the phrase "value added" means.

 

-MKL

 

 

[RAINEY]

I guess I'm lucky that my dealer is fairly priced and I'll buy most everything from them since they have earned my business by always treating everyone fairly. Remember if the can't make a profit they won't be around when you need them for warranty work or any other service. I know there's some rip off dealers out there and they should be avoided. Dealers have a lot of over head and liability so they need to make a fair profit to keep the doors open.

 

Jason

[TN_R_Girl]

My dealer is notorious for poor customer service. Admittedly, I've never bought a motorcycle from them; but I also know I don't have the know-how or tools to do my own work so...

 

... as a gesture of goodwill on my part, I pay the premium on the tires and take my bike to them for all service. As a result, when I (or a guest) has been in a bind and needed service on short notice, they've been gracious and accomodating.

 

It's a trade-off, but I think well worth the extra $100 I probably get charged by the time I'm done.

 

Just my $0.02

[tallman]

And I invite anyone who doesn't like thier dealer policy wrt this to open their own and make all the money that their dealer obviously is too stupid to want...

Shannon, following, not replying )

 

This comes up periodically, while it is understandable that

most won't like it, I don't, it is a free market economy, so compete or go home.

 

Blaming a dealer for the actual cost they bear to be open

when competing with a tire wholesaler isn't apples to apples

comparison.

Overhead is different, insurance is different, liability is different.

 

Want a new roof.

Compare cost of hiring a licensed and insured roofer to going down to local labor pool and Home Depot and doing it yourself.

 

Or tree trimming, compare trained arborist to fly by night operation.

Everything is good until someone gets hurt and sued.

 

Like Isaid, I don't like this type of policy, but I get the rationale and don't condemn hard working, tax paying, local job creating enterprises.

If I don't want to give them my $$$, I don't.

Best wishes to all.

[EddyQ]

I've heard all this before and I guess I am one of those that just doesn't get it.

 

I do understand that the dealer needs a profit. Maybe to make ends meet, he needs to charge $500 for a set of tire changes.

Fine. I really want my dealer to stay in business.

 

But why does the dealer jack the price of the tires? Shouldn't the added cost be in the labor or some overhead charge? If the dealer pays $300 for the set of tires, I believe he should be honest about it. He has added labor cost to order, stock and store these tires which adds to the cost. Fine. So a tire brought in shouldn't have these additions. Right? And the brought in tire should help his business because the dealer gets more work.

 

As for a dealer not wanting to mount tires brought in. He certainly has that choice. But the reason should not be because he looses the jacked up cost of the tires. If all his hired help are motorcycle mechanics that demand higher salaries, that to me would be a much better reason for not wanting to take a job for $30.

 

Insurance/safety concerns is unfortunately something that I would have to agree with as a reason for the dealer not wanting to mount unknown origin tires. I'm gonna end it here with what I think about this . . .

[Rinkydink]

I lost my local dealer because of this very thing (IMHO). Use your dealer or you will lose him.

 

Then, like me you will miss him.

[Paul Mihalka]

"But why does the dealer jack the price of the tires? "

The whole tire business is a mess, organized to favor the tire manufacturers and the large volume wholesalers. For the last 20+ years I work at BMW dealers. I can buy tires and most everything except bikes at dealer cost or cost + 10%. For the last 5 years or so I buy my tires from the Internet volume outlets. I get them for less $ than buying them from my shop. The dealer has to get it from a national wholesaler like Parts Unlimited and others, who make a profit, and then sell it to his customers, making some profit. It's a tough mess.

[RAINEY]

"But why does the dealer jack the price of the tires? "

The whole tire business is a mess, organized to favor the tire manufacturers and the large volume wholesalers. For the last 20+ years I work at BMW dealers. I can buy tires and most everything except bikes at dealer cost or cost + 10%. For the last 5 years or so I buy my tires from the Internet volume outlets. I get them for less $ than buying them from my shop. The dealer has to get it from a national wholesaler like Parts Unlimited and others, who make a profit, and then sell it to his customers, making some profit. It's a tough mess.

 

Have you ever asked your dealer for a better price? Some times asking for something might just get it for you.

[Downs]

Mount and balance them yourself.

 

The equipment to do it would pay for itself in short time if you ride a lot of miles and use manual equipment like a No-Mar and a static balancer.

 

I actually like static balancers more than electronic balancers but that's just me.

 

The manual tire changers are actually pretty easy to use as long as you have a long enough lever and use some lube.

 

Either that or I'll take it to an independent shop who usually does them for 20 bucks which to me is money well spent

 

I actually took my bike to the local BMW dealer (Fort Worth) because they had the PR3 I was looking for in stock and I didn't have time to wait. I pulled the rear tire in the parking lot and carried it in and had them change it. Tire was 173 bucks and after mounting/balancing and taxes rolled in cost me 230 dollars. That's a lot of extra dough for the 10 minutes it takes to remove, install and balance a single tire.

[RTinNC]

Next time you go to your favorite restaurant stop by a Wall Mart on the way & buy your dinner meat there then ask the restaurant to cook that for your dinner. You might get the same treatment as you got at your local BMW dealer.

 

YES, yes, and HELL yes. Exactly correct. To those that think this is poor customers service, as a guy in sales, let me tell you this - they don't need your business. They would rather not have it, and I don't blame them a bit.

 

I've told this story before. I was at the dealer looking around, and a gentleman was there trying on jackets. He must've been there an hour, trying on everything, the salesman waiting on him hand and foot. He left a giant pile of jackets in the dressing room, and eventually left without buying anything. 2 weeks later, they told me, he walked in with new jacket on, that he procured online to save a few bucks. It had a defect, and he wanted some warranty service done on it, since the dealer sold that brand of jacket. When he was gently turned away, he complained loudly about poor customer service.

 

He didn't get it. Some people don't get it. They WOULD get it, if they spent an hour in sales and had an idea about what the phrase "value added" means.

 

-MKL

 

 

I could not agree more! To me that is akin to stealing ... stealing from the dealer who invested time and cost of inventory.

 

When I was shopping for a jacket years back I was in my local BMW dealer and the salesman spent an hour with me showing me jackets and explaining the differences and then offered to order me one in a TALL. I ordered it on the spot. I knew then I was paying about $50 to $70 more than on-line BUT I got service and was able to see the item which was worth the cost. I still have that great jacket today!

[smiller]

They'll tell you about liability issues but there is little exposure there. It's about money.

Yes. 'Liability' concerns are often used as a smokescreen for any number of poor business practices.

[szurszewski]

But why does the dealer jack the price of the tires? Shouldn't the added cost be in the labor or some overhead charge? If the dealer pays $300 for the set of tires, I believe he should be honest about it. He has added labor cost to order, stock and store these tires which adds to the cost. Fine. So a tire brought in shouldn't have these additions. Right? And the brought in tire should help his business because the dealer gets more work.

 

 

This brings interesting questions to mind - my mind anyway. My first reaction was, why shouldn't the dealer "jack" the price of tires? I mean, isn't the dealer a retailer and isn't the tire a retail item? If he is selling it, he has to charge more than he paid, or he'd make no money.

 

On the other hand, maybe we think of tires as a "part" and the dealer is only supposed to charge for labor and such, and give us parts at his cost. I know that I appreciate that my mechanic does NOT charge a markup on parts, and only makes his money on his labor.

 

So, is the dealer supposed to be a retailer or a repair facility? The reality, it seems, is that they are both at once. I don't think a reasonable person would expect them to sell, say, a riding jacket at their wholesale cost. Is there a line drawn somewhere between "parts" and accessories? If so, where is it? Which side of the line are farkles on? GPS we'd probably agree they could make a profit on, but maybe not tires? What about engine guards?

 

Not trying to establish a position - just sharing internal dialogue. I know nothing about retail. I own a business, but our product is almost entirely intangible, and depending on which market we are catering to at the moment, our profit margins are either quite good or from almost nothing to actually nothing.

[Rougarou]

I'm glad that I can deal with shops that allow me to bring parts in that I buy to put on my vehicles. Tires, water pumps, timing belts, doesn't really matter, the shops I use let me bring those parts in. I only pay for labor.

 

The caveat to that is that the shop will not do warranty work on those parts, it is up to me to deal with the manufacturer or the parts house/online from which the part came. I would also have to pay for pulling the part as well. So far, I've been lucky and have not had any issues.

 

If I'm going to pay your labor rate, you will install my part, otherwise, I'll find some other shop that will do it and they can take my money.

 

There are many out there that have test driven cars on one lot, yet chose to purchase a car from another lot, so the sales references don't fly for me. If I spend time with a dealer and he is not reaching my price, no matter what the salesman does, I will pick up and go to another lot.

[smiller]

If you live near a Cycle Gear they will mount tires for a reasonable rate no matter where you bought them (although Cycle Gear's tire prices are reasonably competitive in themselves.) Somehow they manage the 'liability' and other issues and are able to make a profit. Perhaps the overhead a BMW dealer must work under precludes this and if so I guess it's up to every individual to decide how much they want to contribute (over the alternatives) to keep the dealer in business. But depending on charity doesn't sound like a very sound business model to me.

[Bologna]

Next time you go to your favorite restaurant stop by a Wall Mart on the way & buy your dinner meat there then ask the restaurant to cook that for your dinner. You might get the same treatment as you got at your local BMW dealer.

 

YES, yes, and HELL yes. Exactly correct. To those that think this is poor customers service, as a guy in sales, let me tell you this - they don't need your business. They would rather not have it, and I don't blame them a bit.

 

I've told this story before. I was at the dealer looking around, and a gentleman was there trying on jackets. He must've been there an hour, trying on everything, the salesman waiting on him hand and foot. He left a giant pile of jackets in the dressing room, and eventually left without buying anything. 2 weeks later, they told me, he walked in with new jacket on, that he procured online to save a few bucks. It had a defect, and he wanted some warranty service done on it, since the dealer sold that brand of jacket. When he was gently turned away, he complained loudly about poor customer service.

 

He didn't get it. Some people don't get it. They WOULD get it, if they spent an hour in sales and had an idea about what the phrase "value added" means.

 

-MKL

 

Right on the mark Moshe!!!

 

[99Roadster]

This why they make tire changers.

 

This issue does not exist with car dealers or other bike dealers. Not sure why only BMW motorcycle dealers seem to refuse this service except to create an additional revenue stream. Liability is not the issue as the dealers don't make the tires or any of the other myriad of components that are replaced.

[Dave_in_TX]

This why they make tire changers.

 

This issue does not exist with car dealers or other bike dealers. Not sure why only BMW motorcycle dealers seem to refuse this service except to create an additional revenue stream. Liability is not the issue as the dealers don't make the tires or any of the other myriad of components that are replaced.

 

In the Austin area, very few bike dealers (regardless of brand) will mount tires they haven't sold. When they do, the price for mounting a tire they haven't sold is usually much higher.

[dirtrider]

This why they make tire changers.

 

This issue does not exist with car dealers or other bike dealers. Not sure why only BMW motorcycle dealers seem to refuse this service except to create an additional revenue stream. Liability is not the issue as the dealers don't make the tires or any of the other myriad of components that are replaced.

 

Morning 99Roadster

 

I don't know how you can say liability isn't an issue. There is a liability issue involved with every part a dealer or repair shop installs. From installing a foot peg that fails to installing an oil filter that splits & oils a tire, to installing brake pads that don't stop like the old ones did.

 

A dealer installs a new set of tires, tells the rider to be careful as the tires are new & might be slippery or handle differently than the old tires. One block from the dealer the rider falls down & breaks a leg, breaks an arm, & trashes his bike.

 

Next week the dealer gets sued, the tire company gets sued & the parts house that sold the tires gets sued. Maybe the law suit against the dealer will stick & maybe it won't but the dealer still needs to pay for expensive legal representation.

 

 

[racer7]

This is an excuse and should be recognized as that and nothing more. Anyone can concoct a low probablity lawsuit scenario about anything- doesn't make it a reasonable concern.

 

It is about the money, plain and simple. And I understand the very real argument about the window shoppers and folks who take advantage of dealers service. Got no issues with charging a bit more to make up some lost profit on tire sale.

 

When I have a local shop mount tires purchased elsewhere it is for 1 of 2 reasons

a) They don't carry the tires I use and can't get them in a reasonable period

b) They're a service shop and don't sell tires at all.

 

I inventory sets so I always have what I need on hand these days. Sometimes I buy several sets from a local dealer when they have tire sales or I order them in if I can't buy what I use from a local source.

 

Believe it or not, the guys who do my car tires are a TireRack installer and though they also sell tires, typically tell customers to buy at Tire Rack and have them shipped in- they say there's no way they can match those prices on some items and simply do their best to keep costs in line for customers. They've been around for years and are one of the busier local shops....

[Paul Mihalka]

"Believe it or not, the guys who do my car tires are a TireRack installer and though they also sell tires, typically tell customers to buy at Tire Rack and have them shipped in- they say there's no way they can match those prices on some items and simply do their best to keep costs in line for customers. They've been around for years and are one of the busier local shops...."

 

I do exactly the same thing with our car tires.

 

 

[moshe_levy]

This is an excuse and should be recognized as that and nothing more. Anyone can concoct a low probablity lawsuit scenario about anything- doesn't make it a reasonable concern.

 

You miss the point, entirely. It DOESN'T MATTER if it's a reasonable concern or not. That's determined when it's thrown out of court. BEFORE that happens, you need to take time and money out of your operation's main business to deal with the headache of this nuissance lawsuit. It costs you, and you never get it back. Just two years ago, my company Nova Electric was named in a lawsuit where the guy was suing every company with the name "Nova" in it, regardless of whether it was involved, or not. Reasonable? Hell no. $500.00 and a day in court wasted on my part to prove we never dealt with him? Yes. Do you make that back? No.

 

I lost a GREAT Harley indy when I was first starting out, because I could buy parts cheaper than he could. Eventually all his parts business went away, and not soon after he closed his doors. Then when I needed help, everything took 10x as long and was 10x as inconvenient as I had to travel to a farther, less competent dealer. The warehouse distributors I got parts from cheap were no help in that case. The 10% I saved was quickly lost, and then some. Lesson learned. There is usually a HIGH COST, for a low price! Think about it.

[99Roadster]

"Believe it or not, the guys who do my car tires are a TireRack installer and though they also sell tires, typically tell customers to buy at Tire Rack and have them shipped in- they say there's no way they can match those prices on some items and simply do their best to keep costs in line for customers. They've been around for years and are one of the busier local shops...."

 

I do exactly the same thing with our car tires.

 

 

As do I. The service manager at the Honda dealer I frequent recommended and even worked for TireRack.

 

...and Moshe makes a good point. Essentially, the dealers don't want the hassle that "might" come about from such a transaction.

 

What I don't understand is, at least in this part of the planet, that most car and other bike dealers have no issue with this. Are they willing to accept the risk vs profit or are they just doing the public a favor? The world may never know.

[bikebits]

They'll tell you about liability issues but there is little exposure there. It's about money.

Yes. 'Liability' concerns are often used as a smokescreen for any number of poor business practices.

 

The litigious US marketplace makes liability a very real concern, whether a lawsuit would be successful or not. It is the reason BMW will not sell its helmets in the US but they are readily available in Europe and Canada. Canadian BMW dealers in particular are forbidden under pain of corporate sanction, from selling BMW helmets to Americans.

 

For the same reason, installing tires of unknown origin could legitimately be seen as an unacceptable risk by some retailers.

[rickmoen]

Interesting topic. When I first saw this post, I thought, "those greedy dealers." After the followup posts, I've changed my mind. Dirtrider (as usual) and many others have convinced me that the liability issue is very real. FWIW, I've always had the place I bought tires install them - more of a courtesy than anything else. I thought the $$ was in the installation, not the sale. Been doing the right thing, for the wrong reason. No dealers means no place to buy a new bike!

 

[CVA-42]

I have a good friend who owns and runs a restoration and repair shop. He works mainly on BMW's, both vintage and modern, with an occasional KTM or Ducati thrown in. The issues cited by DR are exactly why I have encouraged him to talk to his insurance agent about an umbrella policy or whatever type of appropriate business policy the agent might recommend. Without it, I think he's really hanging it out there for many, many reasons.

[tallman]

"But why does the dealer jack the price of the tires? "

The whole tire business is a mess, organized to favor the tire manufacturers and the large volume wholesalers. For the last 20+ years I work at BMW dealers. I can buy tires and most everything except bikes at dealer cost or cost + 10%. For the last 5 years or so I buy my tires from the Internet volume outlets. I get them for less $ than buying them from my shop. The dealer has to get it from a national wholesaler like Parts Unlimited and others, who make a profit, and then sell it to his customers, making some profit. It's a tough mess.

 

Have you ever asked your dealer for a better price? Some times asking for something might just get it for you.

 

Not happening unless dealer wants to pay for your tires and lose money.

Most dealerships have a contract with big suppliers like Parts Unlimited so the dealer can order the multitude of stuff the customers want.

Dealer has to spen $XXXXX dollars with PU or problems arise.

Dealer agrees to provide items to customers.

Tires from these big suppliers are marked up to the dealership by PU and others.

When I worked at a dealership I could buy tires on-line cheaper than the dealer could buy them from PU.

That is that.

No wiggle room etc.

Insurance provider dictates liability issues.

That is that.

Stepping outside those dictums puts dealer at risk.

That is that.

Some dealers for whatever reason abide by those rules.

Some, for whatever reason don't.

 

To say it is greed, smokescreen, etc is showing a lack of understanding

about this issue wrt tire costs.

I don't like it.

The guy at the dealership selling you the tires doesn't like it.

But that is how it works.

So pay the freight, or not.

Take them somewhere else to be mounted, or do it yourself.

Simple.

No reason to get acrimonious.

Best wishes to all.

[moshe_levy]

No reason to get acrimonious.

 

"Acrimonious" might be a little strong, but there is *some* reason to hold those who will buy the meat at Walmart and hand it to the restaurant chef to cook in order to save $1 accountable for the results of their actions. When the restaurant's quality decreases, or when its doors close - IF this place was one YOU counted on to get things done.

 

Shortsightedness should be called out for what it is.

 

-MKL

[xoomerite]

I wonder at this sort of thing, but keep my own counsel.

 

I like to support the local brick and mortar store. I shopped around for the combination of purchasing tires and mounting. The BMW shop had the highest prices for tires and mounting. The local Honda shop has the best price and mounts for $20 off the bike.

 

So I don't grouse about BMW, I just buy my tires at Honda.

 

I do buy my parts from BMW. I will spend some extra money to support the local store, but that has its limits.

 

Every business has its policies; and I accept that.

 

Chris

[smiller]

So pay the freight, or not.

Take them somewhere else to be mounted, or do it yourself.

Simple.

That's basically it.

 

FWIW my comment about a 'smokescreen' was with regard to liability excuses (vs. just being up front that it is primarily a dollar issue) but beyond that I don't doubt that what Tim and Paul said is true and that it may be difficult for a dealer to compete in tire sales. Regardless, there is nothing wrong with asking a dealer to perform a simple service task (mounting of tires), regardless of where you bought them. The dealer can either accept the business or refuse it, and you can either pay the price or go somewhere else. There is no moral indignation warranted.

[Sailorlite]

How do those farm supply co-ops work? I suppose there are a million reasons not to, but why not establish a local BMW motorcycle co-op? We'll all join up and share in the profits or losses - while paying financially fair prices for bikes, parts, and service. No more griping about dealer prices - we're paying ourselves as members... John Deere happily sells to the farm co-op and BMW would sell to our moto co-op. I'm in.

 

[Paul Mihalka]

"and BMW would sell to our moto co-op"

ha-ha-ha You don't know BMW...

 

 

[tallman]

But, I encourage folks to consider ideas like that.

4-10 folks splitting cost of tire machine makes for quick payback of investment.

Several of us are considering it, just need one fellow to finish his workshop so it could be set up.

 

Seth,

didn't mean to sound insensitive

[moshe_levy]

A friend of mine once did that. Had a huge workshop, and everyone split the cost of a tire changer and all use it whenever required....

 

-MKL

[Uni]

Just went in with three friends and got a Nomar. We all live within a couple of miles of each other. I've change a couple of tires already and it works great. Temporarily its mounted on a piece of plywood but will be bolted to the floor in the large garage of the only single in the group. He seems to have a lot more room for some reason.

 

Jeff

[DiggerJim]

Just went in with three friends and got a Nomar. We all live within a couple of miles of each other. I've change a couple of tires already and it works great. Temporarily its mounted on a piece of plywood but will be bolted to the floor in the large garage of the only single in the group.

We did the same thing. Use threaded inserts in the floor. That way you can bolt it down when being used and then when you're done, unscrew it and break it down for storage. Saves having to dedicate the space all the time.