Polaris buys Klim

[roadscholar]

Found this interesting, don't know if it'll help bring down prices any w/o sacrificing quality but it'd be nice.

 

http://www.klim.com/en-us/news/snow/polaris-acquires-klim-technical-riding-gear/5257847374719591232

[racer7]

The press releases make this sound like a good deal for everyone but the reality is that all large corporations are crawling with marketing types who will make their bonuses by upping volume. This always means cheapening product over the long haul. Sooner or later Klims initial practices will disappear and they'll be just another gear co- with quality determined by what overseas plants will provide at whatever price point Polaris takes this to. The original contract agreement is of no long term consequence and is simply a tool for acquisition as the Klim guys will learn eventually.

 

[roadscholar]

This always means cheapening product over the long haul.

 

Yep, I suspected as much when I saw it. But maybe they really do want a high end line of snowmobile clothing, or maybe they're planning a line of adv. bikes and would have the gear already in place. And then maybe they'll demote the guy that let this come to market, one can only hope.

 

[Bernie]

This always means cheapening product over the long haul.

 

Yep, I suspected as much when I saw it. But maybe they really do want a high end line of snowmobile clothing, or maybe they're planning a line of adv. bikes and would have the gear already in place. And then maybe they'll demote the guy that let this come to market, one can only hope.

 

 

I think this bike would look great with a set of knobbies and spoke wheels. Of course you would have to raise the chassis a little to be able to clear some of the of road bumps.

[eej1]

I think that bike looks cool. Wish I had one.

[Guest Kakugo]

If BMW is anything to go by, high quality won't hold out for long.

BMW used to have their clothing manufactured by Stadler Bekleidung, a Bavarian company specialized in very high end technical gear: among their customers they count many police and fire departments all over Europe. Those all weather green suits German police riders wear... they are mostly made by Stadler.

In 2010 (if I remember correctly) they cut their contract and switched production to a number of contractors located in Eastern Europe, in Hungary and Romania.

After this Stadler started selling bike gear under their own name. Very high end stuff, mostly still made in Germany and very expensive (a jacket + trousers combo is well over 1200€). As you may expect service is unbeatable: you get a 10 years warranty, you can have alterations and repairs carried out directly at the factory and if you are willing to spend an extra buck they will even design your own tailor made suit.

Given that most bike gear manufacturers have cut quality in recent years to keep prices down I am tempted to pull the plug: if it lasts as much as the warranty implies it's not even that expensive.

[roadscholar]

In 2010 (if I remember correctly) they cut their contract and switched production to a number of contractors located in Eastern Europe, in Hungary and Romania.

 

Good point Kakugo, and I think outsourcing began way before 2010. I've got an old Rallye I and maybe a Savanna I that are at least 12-15 years old and they were made in Hungary. Some of the later stuff (Rallye Pro II, Commuter 3) is made in China. The quality is still pretty good (except those pesky zipper pulls), but it seems Rukka and Klim have moved into the ultra high end for now.

[moshe_levy]

Klim right now is made overseas in low labor rate areas. It's right on their website. The gear is good, but it's not like it's made here.

 

-MKL

[johnlt]

Where something is made is a political issue, not a quality issue. Quality is controlled by the specification that is part of the contract and the QC inspection of the product to the spec requirements. Some vendors can be problamatic but then you find (and qualify) a new vendor.

[racer7]

Well, sort of...

Chinese (not Japanese) business ethics is an oxymoron. The only time you can be certain you're getting what's in a contract or spec is to have your own ex pat staff on hand as witness and supervisor. Anything less and virtually all Chinese firms will ship almost anything. What westerners consider fraud and data fabrication are commonplace, accepted practices in China. I can't come close to remembering ll the times I've seen phoney QC info in and from Chinese plants, unqualified staff posing as technical inspectors, and I wouldn't trust any out of my sight based on that.

You can hire some pretty decent independent inspection firms and if they don't get bribed that is of some use..But if you believe a std westen supplier qualification and annual visits are enough to supervise quality from China you are living a fantasy. Even pharm companies with their own highly competent staff have been bitten- ask Abbott how much they enjoyed recalling Chinese heparin after it killed their US patients with a deliberately added toxin intended to fool spec tests thereby raising price. FDA says up to 80 on their website though Abbott says only a handful...

[johnlt]

It is interesting for us "pre war babies" that your comments would apply to Japan in the 50s and 60s where we figured everyting was a copy and made out of old beer cans. But now they bring you Lexus. Countries change and you will see this in China also. Vendor qualification process is a really big deal and needs to be proactive, not just passive inspection. When you finally get a qualified vendor it results in a real win win situation. I hope Klim has success and I love their gear. It seems well thought-out and of excellent quality "currently". Time will tell.............

[Guest Kakugo]

In 2010 (if I remember correctly) they cut their contract and switched production to a number of contractors located in Eastern Europe, in Hungary and Romania.

 

Good point Kakugo, and I think outsourcing began way before 2010. I've got an old Rallye I and maybe a Savanna I that are at least 12-15 years old and they were made in Hungary. Some of the later stuff (Rallye Pro II, Commuter 3) is made in China. The quality is still pretty good (except those pesky zipper pulls), but it seems Rukka and Klim have moved into the ultra high end for now.

 

It may be well possible.

And you are right on the money in saying them Chinese have problems designing and manufacturing zippers!

[waynerd]

And then maybe they'll demote the guy that let this come to market, one can only hope.

 

I'm quite familiar with the guy responsible for these "gems". He retired from Polaris (after his perceived success with Victory) and a few years later became the CEO of the start-up where I was working. While I have absolutely no affinity for these two-wheeled abominations, I gotta admit that he was the only CEO, of any company that I worked for, that I could ever relate to - a regular, hard-working guy that was very approachable. I think he headed Polaris for 10 years, which is a relative eternity in the modern business world of the pathetically transient CEO. Overall, a decent guy. He cut his teeth at GE, and maybe that helps explain his design sense, or lack thereof. Luckily, I never got roped into any motorcycle discussions in his presence.

[roadscholar]

Luckily, I never got roped into any motorcycle discussions in his presence.

 

 

 

Wayne, thanks for the 'insider' input, that is interesting. Polaris is surely a big success story among the powersports industry, and if he was there for ten years, no doubt had a substantial hand in it. Some people evidently like the Vision because you do see them on the road, it's just a little over-styled for my tastes and possibly the mainstream too. I think I get the reasoning behind it though.

 

I happened to be a Yamaha dealer in the late 70's and early 80's when somehow YamahaUSA managers convinced Japan they could dethrone Honda (or maybe it was the other way around I don't know : )) from the #1 spot even when Honda had a 43% market share and Yamaha's was 22. Yamaha instigated focus groups (maybe an industry first) to discover what potential riders wanted. At the time (relatively poor economy) the answers were economical mid-size bikes, low seat height, and low maintenance shaft drive.

 

The other half of this onslaught was in the form of what I called Buck Rogers styling, at the time over-the-top swoopy bodywork and wheels combined with futuristic gizmos and some ridiculous instrument clusters. The Seca 750, Virago 920, Maxim 750, Seca Turbo, and Vision 550 (why is it when a co. names something Vision or Futura, or the shape of things to come-Triumph TR7, it's always a flop... Edsel and Tucker notwithstanding), were all nice motorcycles but with too much style to withstand the test of time. I guess they figured drastic results required drastic measures, who knows. Actually there was a boost in mkt share but it was due to some other models and factors as well, and us dealers eventually realized all they did was wake up the sleeping bear.

 

Going back over the decades looking at Honda's styling, except for the Dreams, they almost never ventured outside the box, generally conservative and mainstream. No doubt some were derived from racing, but they have an inordinate amount of true classics from their past, which is the highest complement regarding style.

 

Wayne, noticed you have an original Sabre, a great bike. IMO if they'd just put a round headlight on it, it'd be exceptional, but I believe almost everything had square headlights in those days : )

 

Sorry for the sidetrack, carry on...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[markgoodrich]

Well, this seems like a logical fit to me. Polaris is extremely well established in the snowmobile business, a large part of KLIM's busienss, and they've been persistent and diligent in their attempt to create a motorcycle company. My guess is the snow gear is what attracted Polaris.

[Sweendog]

Klim must focus more on snowmobile attire, as I'd never even heard of them until this thread. =)

[roadscholar]

 

 

 

[waynerd]

 

I happened to be a Yamaha dealer in the late 70's and early 80's when somehow YamahaUSA managers convinced Japan they could dethrone Honda (or maybe it was the other way around I don't know : )) from the #1 spot even when Honda had a 43% market share and Yamaha's was 22. Yamaha instigated focus groups (maybe an industry first) to discover what potential riders wanted. At the time (relatively poor economy) the answers were economical mid-size bikes, low seat height, and low maintenance shaft drive.

 

The other half of this onslaught was in the form of what I called Buck Rogers styling, at the time over-the-top swoopy bodywork and wheels combined with futuristic gizmos and some ridiculous instrument clusters. The Seca 750, Virago 920, Maxim 750, Seca Turbo, and Vision 550 (why is it when a co. names something Vision or Futura, or the shape of things to come-Triumph TR7, it's always a flop... Edsel and Tucker notwithstanding), were all nice motorcycles but with too much style to withstand the test of time. I guess they figured drastic results required drastic measures, who knows. Actually there was a boost in mkt share but it was due to some other models and factors as well, and us dealers eventually realized all they did was wake up the sleeping bear.

 

Going back over the decades looking at Honda's styling, except for the Dreams, they almost never ventured outside the box, generally conservative and mainstream. No doubt some were derived from racing, but they have an inordinate amount of true classics from their past, which is the highest complement regarding style.

 

Wayne, noticed you have an original Sabre, a great bike. IMO if they'd just put a round headlight on it, it'd be exceptional, but I believe almost everything had square headlights in those days : )

 

Sorry for the sidetrack, carry on...

 

 

Hey Bill,

 

I was going thru some old posts and saw this one. I really wanted to respond to your “sidetrack” at the time, but couldn’t and then forgot. I really got a kick out your insider’s knowledge about Yamaha, because my first bike (the one before the Sabre) was an ’82 Maxim 750. HA!

 

That was 30+ years ago and my bike tastes have certainly changed (though I do remember still being enraptured with BMW bikes back then…just couldn’t afford one). Actually, I probably was the demographic that Yamaha was targeting, and I don’t recall that the styling bothered me that much. I don’t know how much I even thought about style back then – I just wanted to ride a motorcycle! I recall that I liked the adjustable ergo features of the Maxim (pegs, handlebars, seat?) and the shaft drive. I also recall that I got a crazy good deal on the bike. The local Yamaha dealer was going to an auction in Wisconsin to buy a bunch of new bikes from another dealer that was going out of business (hopefully that wasn't you - though interesting to note your comment about market share). It was good to me and took me all over the Midwest.

 

When I first got the RT, I had a kind of flashback to the Sabre, as I think I was trying to find a bike like the RT, even back then – liter engine, purrs at highway speeds, ¾ fairing (it has the Hondaline fairing...with round headlight, by the way ), shaft drive. The one thing I didn’t like about the Sabre was the fact that it was top-heavy. I recall that I really had to muscle it in the turns. Do you remember the Honda ads for its cousin, the Magna, with Peewee Gleason? Those bikes were definitely developed to be a straight-line burner.

 

Thanks for the trip down “memory canyon”. Plenty has changed, but some things are eerily similar.