Bad experiences with tire life

[macx]

I'll apologize in advance for another tire post, but thought I'd share my experience with 4 different brands / models of tires, and see if anyone has experience with something that gets at least a little better mileage.

 

First, I'm an old duffer and hadn't ridden bike much for way too many years before I got back into it, 1st with an 04 R1150 in 08 that I only put a few k miles on, and then my current steed, an 11 R1200RT. So, especially never having been as adventuresome on a bike as I used to be in hot rods and not considering myself by any stretch a skilled or daring rider, I'm getting exasperated by the high cost per mile for tires. I do like to get a little sporty on slower corners and do ride "somewhat" above the posted limit when it's safe to do so, but I sure don't consider myself the type of rider that's hard on tires.

I.e. I don't do lots of corners at or near double the posted recommended speed, esp high speed sweepers, like some folks. Not that I putz around, but I do want to live to retire (end of this year YAHOO!) and put a bunch more miles on after that esp in the mountains out West and other scenic places. So you won't find me doing much more than 1/2 again the recommended speeds on "big" curves.

 

And, of course, being the RT is a highway tourer, that's where it gets ridden.

 

The originals only lasted a tad over 8 k, and that's while I was relearning to ride plus learning a new bike so taking it fairly easy even for me. I then tried Metzeler Z6 Interact and did the best with those of the 4 sets I've worn out - got nearly 12k and that was with "brisker" riding. And they felt stable. Then I tried the Michelin PR3's because of the claimed tread life plus good cold pavement performance for my winter riding which often gets down to 30F, and have good luck with most models of Mich's on our cars & SUV. But Very disappointed with these - both wore very unevenly very quickly and only lasted about 8.5 k, and the rear felt just a little squirrely on slower sharp corners when leaning pretty far. Then tried the Metzeler Z8 Interact. Disappointed again - it seemed that longitudinal groove near the center made the rear a little squirrely on those lower speed sharp corners and esp the rear wore unevenly and very quickly in that area. Another under 9k. So was going to go back to the Z6 Interact which both wore the longest and seemed to me to be the most stable for my riding style. Well, of course, no more Interact in the Z6's, so had to settle for some non-Interact Z6's. Same tread as the Z6 Int's and they also feel stable, but the rear is flat topping at an alarming rate. Only about 3500 miles and from the looks of it I won't get 9k out of it, or maybe even a bunch less.

 

In the first place as a general observation, I was appalled at how thin the rubber is on any of the tires I've tried when new -another even 1/16 or 3/32 of rubber in the center area of highest wear surely couldn't hurt the handling THAT much (?) Course then they wouldn't sell so many, but I'd gladly pay a reasonable amount more just to avoid going thru the hassle of changing and balancing them so often.

 

I started riding my RT in May of 2011 and as of today have 43,500 on it, so changing tires has become all too frequent of an ordeal. Now on the 5th set.

 

I really hate to even mention this, but my neighbor has a big old GoldWing with Metzeler Marathon 880's and claims he gets upwards of 15k on them, even with that heavy bike.

And there's a "new improved" Marathon out that claims even better tread life along with good handling - yes, compared to what, but probly good enuf for me.

 

That'll probly stir some response, but any input on those or some other decent handling tire that will last better?

 

The tire cost per mile, even changing and balancing them myself, sure eats into the reduced gas cost (I ride it to work most of the time, too)

 

As always, I appreciate any lessons learned and tips from actual experience.

 

[macx]

Well, looked thru MC Superstore listings and doesn't look like there's much available in the higher rated tires I haven't tried. Sizing not right in anything else i.e. that M888.

 

Oh, well.

 

 

[Guest Kakugo]

There's one thing that really caught my attention: don't take it personally, it's just an observation.

 

You said your set of PR3's wore very unevenly. That's very, very odd. All the Michelin tyres I've used in the past four years or so, road or track, wore extremely evenly.

 

You also said both the Z8 and the PR3 affected your bike handling, especially at the rear. Again, very odd. I have zero problems with my PR3 and the K1600GT I test rode extensively had no similar issues with the Z8 it had on.

 

The fact your Z8 had uneven wear around the longitudinal groove according to me hints at the fact there's something wrong with your suspension. That's not supposed to happen even when riding flat out all the time: tyres should wear fast but evenly.

 

I don't know enough about your bike to make a diagnosis (and then I would probably get it wrong ) but I suggest you concentrate your efforts on the suspension. How old are the shocks, were they ever rebuilt, how are they set now, is the spring rate right etc. I also would give some attention to shock bushings and swingarm bearings especially.

 

Again, nothing personal but since even I (not known for making tyres last) get from PR3's twice the mileage I got from BT020's, there's definitely something odd at work.

[eddd]

 

First thing you want to do is throw away your calculator.

 

Finding out that your motorcycle tires are costing you 4-8 cents a mile is too depressing.

 

On a more serious note, there might be something to Kakugo's suggestion. I also wonder about the tire pressure you are running, but the numbers you are getting are pretty much what most people will get from a set of the tires you have run.

 

Assuming everything suspension and tire pressure-wise is OK, you might want to try the PR2 or the Metzler ME 880. Both of these are considered to be among the longer lasting tires. The ME 880s will flatten off sooner than the PR2 but still provide good predictable service life.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[malcolmblalock]

FWIW, I get the best mileage from Pirelli Angel ST (E build). Consistently above 11K miles. Handle well enough for me (I can't tell the difference in these and the Metzlers and Michelins). Just my experience.

[Dave_in_TX]

First thing you want to do is throw away your calculator.

 

Finding out that your motorcycle tires are costing you 4-8 cents a mile is too depressing.

 

On a more serious note, there might be something to Kakugo's suggestion. I also wonder about the tire pressure you are running, but the numbers you are getting are pretty much what most people will get from a set of the tires you have run.

 

Assuming everything suspension and tire pressure-wise is OK, you might want to try the PR2 or the Metzler ME 880. Both of these are considered to be among the longer lasting tires. The ME 880s will flatten off sooner than the PR2 but still provide good predictable service life.

 

I've gotten significantly longer life out of the ME880 than the PR2. After going through rear tires about every 6k miles (PR, PR2, Roadsmart), I switched to an ME880 on the rear paired with a Z6 on the front. the ME880 gives me 3-6k more miles than the others did. I now have over 160k miles on two R1200RTs and more than half that mileage is with the Z6/ME880 combo. In my experience, the ME880 is also the least susceptible to squaring off (yes, that's contrary to Ed's experience). Personally, I found the Z6/ME880 combo to handle as well as anything else I tried. If you go with the ME880, you'll need to go with a 170/60 instead of the standard 180/55 since the ME880 is not available in 180/55 but the size difference is minor. If you're not a "hard charger", you could consider also putting an ME880 on the front.

 

 

 

 

[tallman]

5-10,000 pretty standard for RT

 

I've seen 3,500

to 22,000

on RT's I sold for OEM tires.

 

Roads, riding style, tire pressure, suspension, all factor in.

 

A consistent 8-10,000 would make many riders happy.

YMMV

[philbytx]

I would be ECSTATIC with 8k on the rear of either my R or my RT

[OlGeezer]

I can only offer you a couple of pieces of advice/wisdom/consolation:

 

1. If you are like me, I was in shock how little mileage I could get out of my tires when I got back on a bike after growing up getting 20k miles on tires. Plus, they were so dang expensive! I finally realized that the rubber is better (stickier), bikes are heavier and more powerful. All good things.

 

2. Your friend with the Gold Wing and his/her bias ply 880 might get better mileage, but you can have more fun with your bike and tire combination. Don't try to compete with a Gold Wing for anything!

 

3. Become religious about tire pressure. I recommend the 10% Rule, but checking your tire pressure on a regular basis will help with your mileage.

[TF1200RT]

I'm running PR3's on an 05 RT and I checked the tire wear yesterday. I have 11,500 miles on the set and the rear looks like it is hardly worn. I use the bike as a commuter everyday and for long trips out of state, and I ride it the same way I ride my sport bike (always on a lean!). You may need to check your tire pressure that you are running, because I get very even wear from the front and rear. I run 42psi in the rear and 38psi in the front.

[Antimatter]

Your experience is the primary reason I learned to change my own tires. I don't get nearly the miles per year that you do, but when I was doing a lot of track days I was running through 3-4 sets of tires per year doing that.

 

One of the biggest issues along with the heavier bikes is that we're all going a lot faster than we used to. And we have expectations that we'll have a car-like ride. That means the tires have to be stickier, and they have to be lighter to reduce unsprung weight.

 

Look on the bright side; I bought a side-car rig last year and you don't want to know how often I have to replace the rear tire on that.

[macx]

re: The reply about the PR3's: Yes, that's what I thought just based on all the reviews I read before I decided to try them. I tend to over analyze things but sometimes it pays off, except for this time.

 

If my current Z6 non-interacts don't do well, I might try another set and try a little higher tire pressure (?)

 

On suspension wear, the bike had 20k on it when I installed them so I would hope to goodness a BMW wouldn't have suspension problems that early!, and the set before (Z6 interacts) wore a tad over 12k and without any squireliness I noticed - I only noticed it on the PR3's on tight lower speed corners like entering an on-ramp with a 90 degree corner, and I wasn't aware of any difference in riding style - I'm old and fairly conservative on "hard riding" but do like to "zip along" at fairly good speeds I feel I can get away with. With those on, I was pretty much limited to 75 on a busy heavily patrolled by very very smooth interstate.

 

It's my commuter, 80+ miles per day 5 & 6 days a week except for a couple months in winter (Vegas area).

 

As I said, I've had consistently good service out of Michelin's on a variety of vehicles and was really surprised when they started early to wear unevenly just a tad off center on both sides, front and back. And at 8500, there wasn't a thing left in the center on the rear.

 

One question on tire pressure, which I try to carefully monitor (have the tire pressure monitor altho it can show off a couple pounds on occasion, usually on the low side, so I check with a very good digital gauge once a week just as a routine) - am I thinking cockeyed but wouldn't higher tire pressure force the tire into more of a round shape and make it wear at the center quicker? That's where I have experienced the wear - they flat top to the point on the Z8's the rear tire actually went flat overnite after I rode it home from work and I discovered it was down to thecords on a narrow strip all the way around - and I hadchecked it before I left work cuz I knew they were getting down to the last. But the rest of the tire on both sides had a major % of the rubber still on it.

 

I had looked at and read all the reviews I could find on the Pirelli Angel when they came out and considered them, but then read owner reviews that predominantly said not very good tire life, so passed them over. Of course everyone has a different riding style which probly is a very major factor.

 

I, of course, ride more "enthusiastically" than most Goldwing owners, but nothing like track time or banzai high speedsweepers or anything. And, that would wear the off-center parts of the tire where I don't have the problem - it's the centers that always flat top as the worst problem on the rear, and the just off-center irregular wear on the PR3's and the Z8's which I didn't experience on the Z6's, running same pressures. I always ride on just the comfort setting cuz I don't push it into the adrenaline zone becuz of my age and relative inexperience - as well as my desire to live to retire and ride the mountains in the West some more. A bunch more.

[macx]

All considered, I obviously did something not quite right with the PR3's - I got barely 8000 out of the oem BTO's and hardly any more than that out of the PR3's.

 

From other things I've read recently, maybe I'll try them again (I like the cold pavement capability and all the siping for wet surfaces)next set and up the pressure 3 or 4 lbs.

 

I go 275 dressed and carry maybe 20 lbs of "stuff" so that very well might be a factor.

 

Also while I had those on I moved and now ride a somewhat rougher, coarser surface to work and back, altho very little in the way of curves. Even so I'm sure that has some detrimental effect on tire life - I do mostly 85 on that road as it's a largely deserted 2 lane straight across the desert, except when meeting traffic in the afternoon (not much out there at 3:30am when I leave for work).

 

I also read about the PR2's and wondered - any body else have experience with them?

 

A funny anecdote about GoldWings - I was following another 1200 thru the mountains SW of Sedona AZ one weekend and altho not Kenny Roberts, I was feeling pretty good about "expanding my horizons" and keeping up with the Beemer in front of me when this old (even compared to me!) dried up little geezer in a Wing passed me on a fairly sharp corner that I wouldn't have felt confident going faster on and I swear his footboards were as close to dragging as they could get without throwing sparks, and in a couple minutes he left both of us behind wondering what happened. So I quit assuming Wing's were luxomobiles only!

 

OK, thanks so much for all the thoughtful input - would love to hear of any other experiences with PR2's. If my current non-Int Z6 rear continues to flat top at it's current rate (front is doing very well) I might try the PR3's again.

 

I still wish they'd put i.e. another 1/16 of rubber down the middle!

 

Come to think of it, I had put a set of Z6 Int's on my 1150R and at 5k+ they still looked really good, even the center of the rear.

[macx]

Re changing tires - for sure! When the local dealer in Vegas wanted over $600 (compared to the Z6's the Bakersfield CA dealer put on for nearly $200 less), I went into the tire business myself. Get them from MC Superstore, got a $30 bead breaker from Harbor Freight and a Marc Parnes balancer - great rig! I don't fight prying the darn things off, I cut across the carcass with a sawzall in 2 places about 6 to 8" apart, then along the sidewall to open up an area so I can get a 4" side grinder with a metal cutoff disc in to cut the beads, holding them away from the rim with a big flat screwdriver or small tire iron. When I break the beads, I push that area well away from the rim so it even kinks the beads a little inward, making it easier / safer for the cutoff wheel. Gets them off in very short order with no struggling.

[NCStephen]

I always got a little less from my PR2s than from the Z6s 8,500 to 10,000 PR2s 9,500 -11,000 Z6s. Mileage between the plain Z6 and Interact Z6 was the same with the PR2s were more nimble feeling the Z6s more straight line stable. Surface structure of the road can really come into play here. Since you changed your route/road, and it is coarser (and more abrasive) expecting less miles per tire is a reasonable expectation.

 

Many folks complain about the Z6 not having center tread so you know when they are worn out. Monitor the Tread Wear Indicators on the tread. (marked twi on the eadge of tread) There are three of them on each side of center. You can find them Since your tire is wearing in the crown watch the center most indicator on each side of center. When they reach the surface you have about 500 or less miles before metal is showing.

The tire will also get this funky raised crown effect in the last few hundred miles

 

 

Notice the wear bar location, Not the easiest to see but they there and effective if you watch them. I was caught 2x with thinking I had a few hundred miles left on a tire only to return from a ride to find metal showing.

 

 

 

 

Notice the funky crown wear. It was typical of my experience at the end of the tire life with the Z6s.

 

 

 

 

 

The PR2s while more nimble feeling, on slower sharper turns at a certain point of lean had a bit more eagerness to want to fall in even more so. In higher speed sweepers I liked this. At slower speeds I didn't. Since you are a heavier person and carrying some gear all the time, consider the "B" model of the PR3s. Same weight range and all but side walls are stiffer.

 

How about some ride reports??

 

NCS

[tallman]

What tire pressure are you running?

[Marty Hill]

What tire pressure are you running?

 

Way to low would be my guess.

[Fubar]

I'm running PR3's on an 05 RT and I checked the tire wear yesterday. I have 11,500 miles on the set and the rear looks like it is hardly worn. I use the bike as a commuter everyday and for long trips out of state, and I ride it the same way I ride my sport bike (always on a lean!). You may need to check your tire pressure that you are running, because I get very even wear from the front and rear. I run 42psi in the rear and 38psi in the front.

I'm on my second set of PR2s after getting 14k out of the first set. I run those same pressures, ride solo (@ 250#) with just the side bags. Mostly around town stuff but some couple of hundred mile days on my '09. Couldn't justify the cost of the PR3s when the 2s were a known quantity. Was happy all the way through the first set, no complaints at all, even squared off like that pic at the end they felt secure. I did not run the "B" version.