Battery Charger question

[kgerry]

just bought a new 2013 RT... on my Triumph i use an Optimate 3+ charger that connects directly to the battery and charges and desulfates etc as needed... the RT owners manual says NOT to charge the battery with a direct connection to the battery... is there some specific reason i could not wire up a harness to use my Optimate? i really hate to have to buy the $180 BMW charger needlessly....

[dirtrider]

Afternoon kgerry

 

As a rule there is no need to buy the expensive BMW battery charger to charge your 2013 BMW battery.

 

The reason the BMW manual says not to charge the battery with a direct connection to the battery is due to possible over-voltage into the vehicle electronics therefore harming them.

 

BMW's big concern is using a battery charger that can exceed 14.4 volts (there is a BMW service bulletin on this)

 

That is the part that would bother me about using the Optimate 3+ charger. That charger has a desulfation & battery reclaiming cycle that according to Optimate can go to as high as 20 volts.

 

Supposedly the Optimate 3+ charger can tell what it is hooked to but that (knows what it is charging) probably only works if the battery has a decent charge to begin with. If the battery is low or dead, in my opinion, there is a good chance the charger won't know what it’s hooked to & could easily exceed the 14.4 volt danger point.

 

If you intend to charge with a direct battery hook up my suggestion would be to buy a Battery Tender or Tender Jr. (not real expensive) That charger is known to work good on the later BMWs with CanBus & chassis computers without harming them. There is no desulfation cycle on the Battery Tender.

 

[Peter Parts]

What do you need a charger for? Going to ignore bike more than 4 months at a stretch in the winter? Been reading too many threads on this forum and posts by folks itching to do something nice to their bike but can't think of anything else they are able to do (like rebuild their shocks, replace their left cam chain tensioner, or snug-up their Paralever bearings)?

 

Ben

[Guest Kakugo]

Hi mate.

 

I have been using an Optimate 3+ on my R1200RT since new. No issue apart the OE battery giving up the ghost after a little more than two years (absolutely normal). My bike hasn't caught fire yet and I am insured so why worry?

 

On both bikes I have the Optimate "piggytail" connector with in-line fuse (SAE-71). Very handy on the Honda with its oddly fit battery.

 

On a more technical side note, the Optimate really does what's written on the box. If it detects anything attached to the battery (even an '80s Honda trail bike) it won't even start the desulfation cycle. Guess how I know.

 

Stick with your Optimate, fit the piggytail and enjoy your new ride.

[Peter Parts]

Hi mate.

 

I have been using an Optimate 3+ on my R1200RT since new. No issue apart the OE battery giving up the ghost after a little more than two years (absolutely normal).snip

 

Ummmm, not long ago we have a thread with those who are pro-tickle telling us about how they made their batteries last outstanding long times, even a decade, one person claimed.

 

Nobody indicated they were able to make their battery poop after only 2 years! Or said that was "normal" let alone "absolutely normal."

 

What's your secret? Or joking aside, how do you account for the short life span?

 

Ben

[Guest Kakugo]

My brother has a BMW battery charger and his GS battery lasted even less than mine.

Dealer told me they get "you won't believe how many" GS and RT stranded by OE batteries after two or three years they get.

BMW OE batteries are not up with the rest of the bike, that's the secret.

 

Using this same charger I had a Honda bike battery last six years (and only changed it very reluctantly, long story). That bike was always laid up during Winter. I also used the same charger on my brother's track bike battery and it was still going strong when he sold the bike after six years.

 

I also have an Accumate (conceptually same charger, but with output suited to cars): my car original battery lasted eight years and the present one is five years old. Since I use my car only sparingly it's a terrific help.

 

 

 

 

[kgerry]

not sure if you are being sarcastic or an a**.... why would anyone want a battery charger? yes for winter when i can not ride for months on end (we had 7 feet of snow here this year and it is currently still snowing as we speak) or if i haven't been able to ride for a couple weeks i would want to give it a charge before finding out the battery is weak and it wont start....

[Peter Parts]

While joking is fun, I do my best to avoid sarcasm-type "jokes" and object to being accused of it.

 

Batteries just don't need trickle charging. No benefit except for cases of extended non-use when they self-discharge slowly over months or have parasitic loads, depending on the chemistry and vehicle. Benefit in combating sulfating is debatable as is harm from water loss from needless trickle charging.

 

I'd call it a superstitious ritual practiced by BMW owners.... bikers only since BMW car drivers don't practice the ritual.

 

Don't know where you ever heard they do (except from charger manufacturers)?

 

Your turn.

 

Ben

[Guest Kakugo]

 

I'd call it a superstitious ritual practiced by BMW owners.... bikers only since BMW car drivers don't practice the ritual.

 

 

My brother used to do that on his old M3.

[kgerry]

thanks for clarifying.... on my Bonnie i only charge during the winter months (it's been winter for 7 months already) as the bike has nothing electronic on it.... (she's a pretty minimalist ride)

but the RT has a lot of electronic stuff that still has to stay somewhat active when the bike is off otherwise you would be resetting all your features everytime you ride... i assumed it would be better to put a charger on the canbus unit if i wasnt going to ride for a week or two as opposed to hopping on, turning the key and going "oh crap, battery's dead/low"

 

BTW, if i didn't drive my car for a week or two i would put a slow charger on it also before trying to start it in the morning... beats needing to get to work and finding out you have a dead battery.... an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure....

[Peter Parts]

I appreciate your measured and courteous reply (typical Canadian, of course). But I respectfully differ in degree if not in principle.

 

Although I bike in Canada, until recent years, I've mostly been able to go for a scoot each month of the year even in Toronto, even if I have to use an axe to cut a path to the laneway behind my house.

 

You are exactly right to think in terms of current draw and the consequences of losing settings in your ECU (which, BTW may not be worth worrying about). Based on stats from DirtRider, your model most likely uses less than 3mA; thus to get down to a re-charge value (60%) with an Odyssey 680, the bike can sit for about 3-4 months, maybe more. Might be almost a year before the ECU or clock go off.

 

Unless you take a special thrill in walking up your dormant bike and just cranking (a thrill I really like and hearing the engine spring to life heightens my respect for these boxers), you can just pro-actively give the battery maybe 30 minutes on a trickle charger... no more ought to be needed to put the battery into cranking mode.

 

Naturally, all bets are off if garage temperature that day is well below freezing or other issues.

 

Moving up to more serious wrenching (say, like valve lash adjustment, tire balancing, brake pad replacement, etc.) is far more satisfying to a biker than being a plug-and-play consumer of battery chargers.

 

Ben

[racer7]

All good stuff...

 

I have seen a bunch of batteries cooked to death by the old style trickle chargers that supplied less than an amp but CONTINUOUSLY. They gas water out of the battery. AGMs try to recombine gases with a catalyst but this is only a partial answer- prevention of excess gassing is essential to obtaining full battery life.

 

So if you use a maintenance charger especially on AGMs where you can't inspect for voulme loss, you need to have a proper modern type that floats at the correct voltage and powers way down or "off" when not needing to boost voltage. As noted, the Odyssey will go one heck of a long time without charging if disconnected or if the parasitic draw is low enough...

 

However, I keep my fleet on modern maintenance chargers though they all run Odysseys. Only case where I may have really needed it was when the K-RS went unridden for 6 mths (health reasons) and ended up with a low enough voltage to not crank. Odyssey was easily restored with charger- they also take deep discharge quite well...

[Peter Parts]

Maybe there is a sensible middle-course for northern winter storage involving a timer "in series" with a smart charger. Especially a timer that runs say once a week (not that I can remember seeing such a thing). That ought to provide a low-impact trickle easily enough to compensate for losses. Betcha 3 minutes a week would be about right.

 

Ben

[meir peles]

Hellow,

I use a CTEK 12 v charger, connected directly to the battery of my r1200rt 2010 and it works fine. I'v used it with my previous r1150rt 2002 and my battery last long. I'v read the manual and consulted my mechanic who recommended me to do so and to save the high cost of the b.m.w. charger.

Congratulations for the new bike!

Meir Peles.

[RAINEY]

Maybe think about the Optimate 4 CanBus edition. You can connect it right through the power socket on the fairing. The Optimate 4 canbus edition can do both canbus and regular cunnection. You can change the programming back and forth. Amazon has them for less that $80.00 new

[JonathanE]

Maybe there is a sensible middle-course for northern winter storage involving a timer "in series" with a smart charger. Especially a timer that runs say once a week (not that I can remember seeing such a thing). That ought to provide a low-impact trickle easily enough to compensate for losses. Betcha 3 minutes a week would be about right.

 

Ben

 

There are many analog and digital vacation timers available at your local hardware stores. Some are strictly daily timers (say, run it for ten minutes each day). Others allow weekly programming so that you can run it for only five or ten minutes once a week on the day of your choice. I built a simple, unregulated, unfiltered power supply and control it with a digital daily vacation timer. I found after extensive testing (well, more like "not very extensive") that ten minutes per day kept the batteries of whichever bikes I'm not riding charged in the middle 12's regardless of how long they sit neglected in the garage. The bikes are isolated from each other with diodes when charging, and with dry contacts when not charging.

 

The Odyssey in my GS is ten years old, but needs to be replaced very soon, certainly before it's next long trip. The original VFR gel battery was replaced at about 7 years of age with another gel, and again four years later (last year). That time I dropped in a cheap AGM battery. We'll see how long it lasts.

[Peter Parts]

More good "data points."

 

Ummm, wonder if your batteries would stay in the "12"s at 30 seconds a day? Or 3 minutes a week? Or an hour of charging after sitting for 4 months without fussing about charging at all?

 

Diodes sounds like an interesting tech fix and necessary enough when batteries are packed together, as you have them. Not sure I know enough about smart battery chargers to know if that confuses the charger and disrupts the logic.

 

This discussion of batteries is interesting. But each of us has a dozen conflicting grandparent-stories to tell about them, with no story having any kind of definitive conclusion: that's partly because the pro-charging story tellers only bring "success" stories to the forum*.

 

B.

*Except for the honest fellow who got 2 years from his stock battery and told us that was normal.

[kgerry]

i plan to forego the battery charger for now (and in true Canadian fashion spend the money on beer)but the first time i go to ride and my battery is dead i will be cursing you.....

[Peter Parts]

i plan to forego the battery charger for now (and in true Canadian fashion spend the money on beer)but the first time i go to ride and my battery is dead i will be cursing you.....

 

Very decent you to think experimentally.

 

Do you have a digital voltmeter to track battery voltage (not that voltage tells the whole battery story)? Or what's called an "expanded scale" auto cigarette-lighter voltmeter?

 

After 4 months in my bike shed and longish unsuccessful cranking on a cold day, I finally put a voltmeter on my Oddessey 680 battery. I think it read about 11.5. I left the Canadian Tire $6 trickle charger on for a long time (like a few hours) and bike started right up. Generally if I get into "trouble" with a battery (bike or car), 15 minutes is all the goosing it needs.

 

Ben

[karlfitt]

I think the BMW ritual of leaving the bike on a charger comes from the older airheads which had much smaller charging systems.

 

I also own a Ducati, which are even more notorious for battery charging issues.

 

I use a BatteryMINDer brand smart charger. t has the anti sulfation cycle on it as well, never read anything about hitting 20 volts during that cycle though.

 

Bought the Duck used, so I don't know how old the battery is, but after three years of my use it's still good.

 

On batteries in general, I have seen many battery banks which use a smart chatrger which will "float" the batteries. And not seen excessive water loss. The key there is not over charging, the modern smart chargers are supposed to take care of that.

 

 

Having said all of thay, I would look into the 20 volt thing on the smart charger beore I hooked it up to my new 2013..

[Peter Parts]

I think the BMW ritual of leaving the bike on a charger comes from the older airheads which had much smaller charging systems.snip

 

Very good analysis. Something there. But I still never needed a charger even with lots of city stop-and-go.

 

Airheads have alternator on crank. So you'd need to be spinning like 2300 rpm before any charging started. Bad news in city unless you figured out how to do some trick wiring in headlamp so only parking lamp runs in daytime. (On my /2, I wired the two filaments in series.)

 

Oilheads traded simplicity (and design geometry) for speed-up belt pulleys. So charging never an issue, as I have been saying.

 

Ben

[RTinNC]

WOW ... these Battery Tender threads have gotten to be like oil threads. I suspect like many things motorcycle related folks will do what has worked for them. For me I always have my bike on a Battery tender and have always for over 20 years gotten over 5 years out a batteries mostly BMW OEM and recently BikeMaster TruGel. At 6 years I usually just replace the battery if I am taking a long trip. I currently use a BMW Gel tender ....paid about $50 I believe and also an Opti-mate that I really like which I bought from someone on this site a couple months ago. For me a tender works and keeps my batteries charged and always ready to go. And getting 5+ years out of a battery is about the best I'd expect. But again that is what has worked for me. But then again I am very anal about my bikes.

[Peter Parts]

Any way to calculate the amount of your life and wealth you've devoted to charging to get no more life from a battery than the rest of us battery-slobs get?

 

Don't feel bad: I sometimes think any extra lifetime I get from working out is less than the time I devote to exercise.

 

OK... there some other benefits to being fit.

 

But as far as I can tell, there are no other benefit to trickle charging besides longevity that anybody has ever claimed.

 

Ooops, I almost forgot the spiritual benefits of doing bike chores.

 

Ben

[RTinNC]

Any way to calculate the amount of your life and wealth you've devoted to charging to get no more life from a battery than the rest of us battery-slobs get?

 

Don't feel bad: I sometimes think any extra lifetime I get from working out is less than the time I devote to exercise.

 

OK... there some other benefits to being fit.

 

But as far as I can tell, there are no other benefit to trickle charging besides longevity that anybody has ever claimed.

 

Ooops, I almost forgot the spiritual benefits of doing bike chores.

 

Ben

 

If the 30 seconds it takes to plug in my Battery tender that cost about $50 and will last 10+ years ... will add longevity to my battery AND give me peace of mind then that seems like a bargain to me. Now about your gym membership

[tallman]

I've figured a savings of about 30% for batteries (cost spent in purchase but discounting time to go and purchase and then R&R) over the years comparing no charger use, trickle charge, smart charger.

YMMV

I also figure about a 100% savings from no gym memebership.