Zip Tie Tire Changing - OK I'm Impressed

[Albert]

Just finished installing a new set of PR3's on the RT using the zip tie method discussed on another thread here. Wow! When doing the rear tire I used a spoon to encourage about the last 8 inches of the bead over. On the front I literally pushed the tire onto the rim (no tools!).

 

Here's what I did:

I found some 14" zip ties at Home Depot (75lb rating). Turns out they're fine for the front but for the back you need probably about an 18 to 20". I simply coupled 2 of the 14" together to make a longer one.

 

On both tires I placed the zip ties at 4 quadrants. Kneeling on the section it was easy to cinch up the zip ties to where the beads touched (or nearly so). I do have a Harbor Freight machine so I mounted the rim in that. A little soap, some pushing and Pop - tire on rim. Essentially you're installing both beads at the same time. I think what makes the method work so well is the zip ties keep the first bead from seating and making the second bead easier.

 

Not sure who came up with the technique or who posted here but you both have my thanks.

[elkroeger]

Glad to hear it. Did you try the hillbilly bead-seating method too?

 

(spray starting fluid on / in the tire and light it...)

[Albert]

Hold my beer, I'll give it a shot.

[Rougarou]

Glad to hear it. Did you try the hillbilly bead-seating method too?

 

(spray starting fluid on / in the tire and light it...)

 

I've done that with my 37's for my Jeep. One squirt around and light the fumes,....freshly filled tire and seated properly

[elkroeger]

Last thing anyone hears before a trip to the hospital: "Y'all watch this!"

[Dave_zoom_zoom]

Hold my beer, I'll give it a shot.

 

 

Love it Al!

 

Dave

[tallman]

Hold my beer, I'll give it a shot.

 

 

Only needs 1/2 a shot, drink half, light half.

Bacardi 151 works great.

[Lighthiker90]

Sorry to chime in late, but how did you balance the tire after you managed to neatly put it on the rim?

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

Sorry to chime in late, but how did you balance the tire after you managed to neatly put it on the rim?

 

That's the easy part. Motorcycle tires/rims are much narrower than car tires/rims, so dynamic balancing is not required; static balancing is adequate.

 

In fact there are some folks here who don't bother balancing their tires at all, and they've had no complaints about vibration.

[Albert]

Sorry to chime in late, but how did you balance the tire after you managed to neatly put it on the rim?

 

In fact there are some folks here who don't bother balancing their tires at all, and they've had no complaints about vibration.

 

I'm in that category. Around 10 tire changes on the RT and never balanced. I've never had an issue.

[SteveHebert]

Same here. I have a buddy who swears by Dynabeads.

[johnlt]

I balance the wheels (with TPMS) one time then never look back.

[smiller]

In my experience maybe 7 times out of 10 the balance is close enough, maybe 2 times out of 10 it's not that great but probably passable without balancing, and once out of ten for whatever reason it's pretty bad. For that reason I balance tires. I mean, what does it take? Ten minutes?

[Lighthiker90]

I'm in that category. Around 10 tire changes on the RT and never balanced. I've never had an issue.

 

I'm not that lucky. The shop I bought the new tires from mounted and balanced them. Dynamic not static balance to boot. I feel better in this case because I rode a short distance on the rim. As far as I could tell with my crude tools the rim was still true. But better safe than sorry.

[CoarsegoldKid]

I should try this method...

As an aside-

...

In fact there are some folks here who don't bother balancing their tires at all, and they've had no complaints about vibration.

 

A buddy of mine bought a new 2013 R1200GS. He complained to the service manager that there was a vibration when riding "vertical" but it went away when leaned over. "Never heard of it", was the reply. Go figure. Anyway he was down at the dealership's open house and talked to the owner about it. Seems he too had the same issue. Then he caught up with another new GS owner that had already changed out his tires and he too had the vibration issue on the first set of tires. So my buddy got to thinking and went inside to look that the few new GS bikes on the floor. No wheel weights on the rears. So he checked his and found no wheel weights on the rear. After he balanced the wheel at home the vibration went away. Are we surprised?

[Lighthiker90]

Turns out the dealer could not balance the tire. I posted before actually picking the tire up. My apologies. Apparently they aren't equipped to balance this size tire from a side swing arm mount. They added Ride-On instead. A product to balance and help seal the tire against punctures. A liquid version of Dyna Beads with the benefit of sealing punctures. The mechanic who installed it went to their demo days. Ride-On road a street bike across nails puncturing both tires. They both sealed and held air for days. We will see how it holds up long term.

[russell_bynum]

Sorry to chime in late, but how did you balance the tire after you managed to neatly put it on the rim?

 

In fact there are some folks here who don't bother balancing their tires at all, and they've had no complaints about vibration.

 

I'm in that category. Around 10 tire changes on the RT and never balanced. I've never had an issue.

 

I've changed a boatload of tires on a variety of bikes (R1100RT, R1100RS, K75, CBR600RR track bike, FZR600 track bike, Tuono, plus a couple of dirt bikes.

 

I've never balanced any of them and never had any issues with vibration, handling, tire wear, or any of the other problems people fear with an out-of-balance tire...at speeds from 16mph to 160mph.

 

On the bike I just leave whatever weights the dealership put on there originally and mount the tire. My theory is that the tires are pretty well balanced right out of the box, so as long as you balanced the wheel at some point and haven't removed any weights, you'll be fine.

[smiller]

My theory is that the tires are pretty well balanced right out of the box, so as long as you balanced the wheel at some point and haven't removed any weights, you'll be fine.

That's a good theory, but in my case practice (meaning actually checking the balance vs. trying to sense it by seat of the pants) has indicated that while most tires are pretty good (especially the ones that are pre-marked by the manufacturer) occasionally you will get one that isn't so great, and more rarely one that is pretty bad. And vibration isn't a single value, it ranges from very obvious, to moderate, to slight, to barely there, to none. Effects in the lesser ranges aren't necessarily obvious but they are there. For me ten minutes to balance the tire is easier than thinking and/or guessing about it, and on some occasions it will have value, simply no doubt about it.

[russell_bynum]

My theory is that the tires are pretty well balanced right out of the box, so as long as you balanced the wheel at some point and haven't removed any weights, you'll be fine.

That's a good theory, but in my case practice (meaning actually checking the balance vs. trying to sense it by seat of the pants) has indicated that while most tires are pretty good (especially the ones that are pre-marked by the manufacturer) occasionally you will get one that isn't so great, and more rarely one that is pretty bad. And vibration isn't a single value, it ranges from very obvious, to moderate, to slight, to barely there, to none. Effects in the lesser ranges aren't necessarily obvious but they are there. For me ten minutes to balance the tire is easier than thinking and/or guessing about it, and on some occasions it will have value, simply no doubt about it.

 

That's all true, but if I don't notice a difference, then does it matter whether or not there is one?

 

I spend no time thinking and/or guessing about it. I just mount my tires and ride.

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

And vibration isn't a single value, it ranges from very obvious, to moderate, to slight, to barely there, to none.

 

You should change "none" to "imperceptible". And that is in fact the goal. As Russell notes, if you can't feel it, does it need to be balanced any better than that?

[g_frey]

Same here, no balance-no problem, tires from nearly all manufacturers too.

[smiller]

You should change "none" to "imperceptible". And that is in fact the goal.

Yes, imperceptible would be a better choice, and that is the goal. But what I seem to be hearing from several individuals is that every tire they have ever mounted has been balanced to a level of imperceptible vibration (and by implication that they expect this to continue indefinitely.) That just doesn't jive with my experience, nor I think even common sense. But it's true that the bottom line is whether you're happy with the results you get and if you are then save the ten minutes and ride I guess.

[eddd]

In my experience maybe 7 times out of 10 the balance is close enough, maybe 2 times out of 10 it's not that great but probably passable without balancing, and once out of ten for whatever reason it's pretty bad. For that reason I balance tires. I mean, what does it take? Ten minutes?

 

I'm with Seth on this. Initially, and after reading various posters say they never balanced tires I just mounted and rode...until I had a tire that definately needed it. I purchased the balancer, a box of weights, and have checked and balanced every tire since with some of them needing lots of weights.

 

While you might get lucky and never mount a tire that needs balancing, I can attest to the fact that removing and re-installing a newly-mounted tire is not on my fun-to-do list. The time spent ia a insignificant when compared to the total time required for a tire change.

[russell_bynum]

In my experience maybe 7 times out of 10 the balance is close enough, maybe 2 times out of 10 it's not that great but probably passable without balancing, and once out of ten for whatever reason it's pretty bad. For that reason I balance tires. I mean, what does it take? Ten minutes?

 

I'm with Seth on this. Initially, and after reading various posters say they never balanced tires I just mounted and rode...until I had a tire that definately needed it. I purchased the balancer, a box of weights, and have checked and balanced every tire since with some of them needing lots of weights.

 

But just to clarify...just because a tire needed lots of weights to balance doesn't mean that you would have had problems if you didn't balance.

 

While you might get lucky and never mount a tire that needs balancing, I can attest to the fact that removing and re-installing a newly-mounted tire is not on my fun-to-do list. The time spent ia a insignificant when compared to the total time required for a tire change.

 

Why would you need to remove/reinstall the tire to balance? Don't you just pull the wheel off the bike?

 

At any rate, you're correct that it's not much time relative to the total time spent removing/mounting tires and if the piece of mind is worth it to you, then by all means do it. For me, it's like replacing valve stems at every tire change...it's an unnecessary waste of time.

[eddd]

...Why would you need to remove/reinstall the tire to balance? Don't you just pull the wheel off the bike?

 

With a badly out of balance tire and no balancer I tried rotating the tire 180 degrees in hopes it would offer some level of improvement while waiting for the balancer and weights to arrive.

 

At any rate, you're correct that it's not much time relative to the total time spent removing/mounting tires and if the piece of mind is worth it to you, then by all means do it. For me, it's like replacing valve stems at every tire change...it's an unnecessary waste of time.

 

Until you come across a tire that is unbalanced to the point where it is noticible/annoying. With the amount of weights I've had to add to some tires I'm certain I've run across a few tires that would have been a problem if not balanced.

[smiller]

With the amount of weights I've had to add to some tires I'm certain I've run across a few tires that would have been a problem if not balanced.

Yes, on the tires that I've found to be clearly out-of-balance I've never installed the tire anyway just to see how obvious the effects were because... jeez... why not just balance the freakin' tire? That may be a flaw in my methodology but I find it hard to believe (given the extremely high rotational speed of a tire at high road speeds) that the effect on some of the poorer examples I've had isn't worth a few minutes to correct, whether I think I can tell a difference or not. I guess the only way to know for sure would be some kind of A-B test but again, given the tiny amount of relative time it takes to do the job right then it just seems silly to me to not do it.

[Peter Parts]

While I'm casual about a lot of things, I am a balance fanatic and think any boxer rider should be too. Sometimes if I have misgivings about the dealer balancing, I test/confirm on my ball-bearing test rig. I tried to get a car repair place to do a dynamic balancing with the wheels mounted which seems to me to be the best way - unsuccessfully.

 

No sense arguing about who has the most sensitive bum but it is another question about mechanical consequences of imbalance. My impression is that you don't want to subject your bearings to those forces. Likewise, why add a dozen miles of movement (composed of thousands of tiny movements) to your shocks for every mile you drive?

 

Not saying I am sure, but that's my impression.

 

To leave rotating stuff unbalanced on a boxer is not boxer-like (I also fault The Factory for not doing a real balance on the flywheel/clutch assembly.)

 

Ben

[smiller]

Yes, mechanical stresses are another valid issue and yes, perhaps more important than whether one thinks they can feel it or not. The fact that your shocks may be doing a good job of mitigating some or all of the felt vibration doesn't mean that it isn't worth addressing. I suppose one could (and will) go on and on about how provable/demonstrable/significant any negative mechanical effects will be over time but it seems a lot easier to do what virtually every tire and vehicle manufacturer in existence recommends (for good reason), especially given that the cost is virtually nil.

 

Anyway, this has gotten beyond silly. My command henceforth is that anyone who wants to balance their tires may do so, and anyone who doesn't may not.

[Francis]

I had a front end vibration issue on my Jeep Grand Cherokee between 55-60 MPH. Turns out one of the balance weights on the drive shaft near the rear axel had fallen off. The dealer replaced the drive shaft with a new balanced shaft and no more front end vibration.

[Peter Parts]

I had a front end vibration issue on my Jeep Grand Cherokee between 55-60 MPH. Turns out one of the balance weights on the drive shaft near the rear axel had fallen off. The dealer replaced the drive shaft with a new balanced shaft and no more front end vibration.

Right. I hope this doesn't sound silly, but your hands feel car wheel vibration on the steering wheel and it is pretty noxious. I don't know how many of us would feel that vibration with our bums on the steering wheel.

 

Further, what we do feel on our bums on a bike is mixed with road irregularities and filtered by the sometimes quite soft saddles we buy.

 

+1 for smiller's well expressed post.

 

Footnote for young 'uns: if you lived through the bad old days with occasional speed wobbles leading to soiled underpants at 90 mph, you'd sure be compulsive about wheel care (even if tank slappers aren't necessarily caused by balance issues).

 

Ben

[roger 04 rt]

Looks like I have to replace the front tire. Currently I've got PR2s front and rear. The front is down to the wear indicators.

 

I'd like to mount a PR3 on the front but leave the PR2 on the rear for now. Any reason not to?

 

The wheel currently has 3/4 oz. weight right at the valve stem. Since I don't have a balancer, I'm thinking of leaving the weights as they are. Any other thoughts on this?

 

RB

[Antimatter]

Having two different models or even brands of tires is no big deal if you're not planning to go 10/10ths on the road. As for the balancing, I don't bother balancing street tires and don't notice any difference. If you do notice a problem, you can get weights at just about any auto parts store, and you can use the axle from the bike on two chairs, cinder blocks, car jacks, etc to balance the tire. Go for it.

[roger 04 rt]

Thanks for the inputs. Will probably get things ordered today.

[Lighthiker90]

I had my rear tire installed with a product called Ride-On. It's a dynamic balancer and sealant. It functions like the beads do but it's a liquid. I don't know if a 1000 tiny ceramic beads make noise but I suspect they do. So far so good. Zero vibrations. I can't vouch for how well it seals punctures. Hopefully I will never have to.

[Endobob]

For me, it's like replacing valve stems at every tire change...it's an unnecessary waste of time.

 

After having a front tire rubber valve stem fail, that almost cause me to go down, I switched to metal stems. Just don't trust rubber stems for a motorcycle anymore.

[Boffin]

For me, it's like replacing valve stems at every tire change...it's an unnecessary waste of time.

 

After having a front tire rubber valve stem fail, that almost cause me to go down, I switched to metal stems. Just don't trust rubber stems for a motorcycle anymore.

Having bought a bag of 100 valve stems for £10 - about $15 - changing them every time is not going to break me. Not changing them might...

 

Andy

[roger 04 rt]

I didn't think about the stems. I better check them.

[roger 04 rt]

What product do you use for tire bead lubricant?

[smiller]

I got a gallon jug of tire lube at my local NAPA, will probably last me the rest of my life. Many just use soapy water.

[roger 04 rt]

Yesterday I mounted a new Michelin PR3 front wheel on my 2004 R1150RT.

 

To break the bead I used a six foot 2x4 as a lever and small 2x4 block between the lever and bead. Slow steady pressure and voila.

 

Four zip ties on the old tire and it came off by hand with a slow strong pull. Next some 0000 steel wool to clean up the tire seating area of the wheel. And a good look-over of the valve stem (good but wish I'd had a replacement on hand).

 

Same four zip ties (tightened as before until the two beads touch) onto the new tire that had been sitting in the sun to warm. a 50/50 mix of mild dish soap on the rim and tire bead. The tire pressed on with little effort. Slow steady pressure did the trick.

 

I've done hundreds of car and truck tires back in the 60s on a tire machine. This was just as easy but the zip tie method seemed much gentler on the tire.

 

The beaded popped on and seated at 18-20 psi which was lower than I expected. Checked the balance on the bike before attaching the speedo or brakes and it was fine.

 

Total time was about an hour or so.

 

Many thanks to all the previous posters and to the suggestion of using zip ties.

[smiller]

Dayum, got to try me that zip-tie thing.

 

[awagnon]

OK. I've heard enough. I'll give the zip ties a try the next time I change tires. ( If I remember it.) Can't be any worse than the tire irons and crate I'm using now.

[Ron_B]

I've tried it too, it works. First, I used straps like this ADVRIDER thread demonstrates:

 

Tire Mount

 

It worked, but I had a bad time removing the straps. The 2nd time, I tried zip-ties and simply cut the ties when finished. Much better.

 

That was a couple of years ago. I've got a Harbor Freight machine, but frankly, I'm ham-fisted when using it and have scratched and dinged my rims one too many times. I've gone back to getting them swapped at a local shop, or bugging a friend who has a no-mar.

[roger 04 rt]

I've tried it too, it works. First, I used straps like this ADVRIDER thread demonstrates:

 

Tire Mount

 

It worked, but I had a bad time removing the straps. The 2nd time, I tried zip-ties and simply cut the ties when finished. Much better.

 

That was a couple of years ago. I've got a Harbor Freight machine, but frankly, I'm ham-fisted when using it and have scratched and dinged my rims one too many times. I've gone back to getting them swapped at a local shop, or bugging a friend who has a no-mar.

 

The beauty of the zip tie method was that I never used anything other than my hands to mount and dismount the tire. For breaking the bead, a 2 x 4 lever and 2 x 4 x 4 block kept me metal free during that operation too.

 

The zip ties were large enough that I could release all of them with a screw driver so I only used 4 of the twenty I bought and can still reuse those four.

 

Realizing that the tire would only move slowly no matter how much force I used helped.

[Ron_B]

Roger, I apparently missed your earlier comment about removing the tires with zip ties too. I only mounted using the ties. Maybe I'll give it another try.

 

You were able to squeeze the beads together close enough with the ties when the tire was still on the rim?

[roger 04 rt]

Roger, I apparently missed your earlier comment about removing the tires with zip ties too. I only mounted using the ties. Maybe I'll give it another try.

 

You were able to squeeze the beads together close enough with the ties when the tire was still on the rim?

 

Yes, it was quite easy. squeezed the tire with my left hand while pulling the tie with my right hand. I was surprised what an easy job it was as long as I didn't try to hurry the tire.

[szurszewski]

Hey - remember what you were doing in 2013? Reading this thread, maybe?

 

I had a tire I needed to swap and couldn't match schedules with anyone who had tools for it (my meager tire tools were sold with my airhead). I'd seen this thread back in the day, and had seen other posts about it, so off I went to the hardware store for some longer zip ties. In front of the selection I couldn't decide if 14" would do or if I needed 18" - regular duty or heavy? A quick google pulled up this thread!

 

Anyway, 14", regular duty ties (rated 50lbs), used about 10 of them, plus some wood blocks, a little help from my seven year old to mount the ties, and there you go. The old tire was softer than the new, but off and on were about the same level of not too bad.

 

:)

[joeb]

Morn all. Just thought I'd add my 1.5 cent worth. As far as seating the bead goes, just jiggling the front tire a little while filling , tire seated pretty easy. I did take out valve stem and used an always open filler head for better airflow. To seat rear tire I did use a racket strap around perimeter of tire to help squeeze it to the rim. As far as balancing, I bought the Marc parnes balancer. My shop mount tires had 5 weights on front, and 3 on rear, my own balance only needed 1/2 weight on front and 2 on rear. A fairly large difference on front. Also I noted that my inside rim surfaces were scratched up, presumably from sloppy mounting by the " pros ". Balance only takes a few minutes. Can't speak for not balancing , but my ride and tire wear is great. Have fun.