Bike air conditioning

[UberXY]

I received an email from this outfit that has developed portable AC for bikes. Not something I want, but I'll pass it on as It might be of value to someone who cannot ride in warm weather for medical reasons.

 

Bike AC

 

 

[smiller]

No doubt many will make fun of this but I don't think it's a bad idea, and not only for those with medical conditions. Riding in extremely hot/humid weather sucks and I would have no problem with anything that will make it more comfortable. But... I doubt they'll sell many at that price, the power consumption could be problematic on some bikes, and I'm also skeptical that it could move enough air to be truly effective in extreme conditions, which is the only time you'd want to bother with it.

 

Of course my solution was moving to where the temperature rarely gets out of the low 80's, and that was even more expensive.

[upflying]

Reminds me of CoolCop and ArcticAir .

http://coolcop.com/body-armor-bulletproof-vest-cooling-device/

Some of these are 12V ice evaporation units. I wonder if this would be a better solution to the feeble amp output on a bike charging system.

How about filling a system case with ice, small fan and duct?

http://www.arcticaircooler.com/

[smiller]

I had a Veskimo for a while. That one circulates ice-cooled water through tubes in a vest. It was fairly effective and in very hot (Texas) weather it was able to make riding tolerable, but still not exactly pleasant. Another problem was that there is no cooling for your head (in that unit or any of the others) so your noggin still bakes in your helmet. A heated vest on your torso can be effective in keeping your whole body warm via blood flow, but I think the physiology is different with cooling and it doesn't seem to work the same way.

[racer7]

I use a Veskimo on extreme humid, hot days for rides over an hour or so.

Its true one's head an still get hot- but it sure makes the ride a lot better if you use it correctly. I have been know to add a neck cooling wrap on the worst days.

 

Re this gadget, there are some obvious engineering type questions. Its a fact that thermoelectric coolers are not very energy efficient and can provide maybe 40 F degrees of cooling/heating. Theis device's sites provide no hard info on energy consumption that I saw but I'd speculate it needs to be at least 100W or more to stand a chance of doing anything useful. That is about the limit of what can be supported on many bikes, leaving little room for added lights, etc though a current RT could handle it easily. This compares to "negligible" for the pump motor on a Veskimo- because its "cold" is stored in the ice which was made off the bike with no demand on the bike electrics.

 

The only 40 degrees of cooling suggest this device probably blows air in the 60s on a hot day- how well that works compared to the circulating ice water of a Veskimo is an open question. However if someone can tell me of thermoelectric systems routinely used by cage racers for long events, I'd consider that question adequately answered. Ice cooled stuff is well established for cage racing and if this has been adopted by some, it likely performs well enough. (Temps inside racing cages can be 150 degrees which is a serious issue over a 3hr stint in the vehicle)

 

I see little use for the heat possibility of this device. My Gerbings or WarmNSafe are more energy efficient and simpler to use.

 

Ergonomically, this thing is very similar to a Veskimo. Don't see any real advantage for one or the other.

 

One minor advantage this has over a Veskimo is that it can run indefinitely while the Veskimo 9 qt reservoir will need an ice refill during a long day ride. However, one can get ice at any gas station cheaply so its not a practical limit in most cases. (However, I'm on the process of adapting a 13 qt Engel cooler as my Veskimo reservoir to increase its range.)

 

The Veskimo is only a fraction of the price of this unit.

 

If someone wants to send me one for a side by side evaluation I'm happy to oblige...

 

 

[UberXY]

. Ice cooled stuff is well established for cage racing and if this has been adopted by some, it likely performs well enough. (Temps inside racing cages can be 150 degrees which is a serious issue over a 3hr stint in the vehicle)

 

 

 

 

In ALMS racing, cars are required to have AC and it must come on when interior temps reach some established delta over ambient.

 

When I road raced sedans and coupes I had an ice chest with a fan that blew cold air into my helmet. Guys with bigger budgets had cool suits which pumped ice water, while it lasted. Looked great to me!

 

And when I raced formula fords, in which there is room for nothing, my crew guy would dump a ten pound ice bag into my suit, covering my chest and stomach. I would be numb at the green flag, but 20 minutes later there would be no ice.

 

My solution for motorcycling when it gets above 90 is to just say no.

[smiller]

Theis device's sites provide no hard info on energy consumption that I saw but I'd speculate it needs to be at least 100W or more to stand a chance of doing anything useful.

It does say 11 amps in the specs, or around 140 watts. That is a lot for most (non-BMW) bikes to support, plus like you I am skeptical even that is enough to do the job. I also tend to doubt that this would cool better than a Veskimo (at a fraction of the cost and power consumption, but requiring ice replenishment once in a while.) I look forward to reading some reviews. Cooling in a motorcycle environment is a tall order though, a lot of energy required to move the heat around.

[philbytx]

90?

It's gotta be over 100 before we cry "Uncle" here in Texas !

 

 

[smiller]

It's gotta be over 100 before we cry "Uncle" here in Texas

Which is every freakin' day from June to September, or at least it seemed like that last year!

[elkroeger]

Crikey. For $1500, you could buy a whole car just for the AC.

[smiller]

Yeah, I don't see those things flying off the shelves...

[SHIMHEAD]

I have wondered for awhile if it wouldn't be possible to adapt the "Climate Controlled Seat" parts from the Infiniti vehicles I work on to supply cooled/heated forced air to a helmet. The parts are fairly compact, run on 12 volts, and the control circuits are relatively simple. Just like the BikeAir system, the Infiniti system uses TED's (thermal electric devices) that heat/cool both sides of the device and reverse that function with a change in polarity. Air is simply blown across the device on both sides, and what you get for output is whichever polarity is applied at the time. The other side of the airflow is simply exhausted. Might be able to pick up the parts from a salvage yard for a decent price.

[walton66]

Shim,

I was just thinking about something similar. Knowing, on a macro level, how this works, I was wondering if it would be easier to create a brain cooling system. I have an old helmet so I might experiment with this. If you have any thoughts

[smiller]

That's an interesting idea. While it would be difficult to provide a significant amount of cooling to your entire torso with thermo-electric devices (especially with all the attendant losses) it seems reasonable to cool the limited and well-insulated space in a helmet. They could be integral to the helmet so as to conduct the heat transfer fairly efficiently, and keeping at least your head cool would go a long way to increasing safety and comfort in high temps. I wonder why this has never been tried, perhaps just not enough of a market.

[DiggerJim]

That's an interesting idea. While it would be difficult to provide a significant amount of cooling to your entire torso with thermo-electric devices (especially with all the attendant losses) it seems reasonable to cool the limited and well-insulated space in a helmet.

 

If you could include the neck, you'd get an awful lot of core temp cooling as well because the carotid/jugular carry a huge amount of blood & close to the skin surface. That's why a scarf has so much impact on keeping you warm.

[TestPilot]

That's an interesting idea. While it would be difficult to provide a significant amount of cooling to your entire torso with thermo-electric devices (especially with all the attendant losses) it seems reasonable to cool the limited and well-insulated space in a helmet. They could be integral to the helmet so as to conduct the heat transfer fairly efficiently, and keeping at least your head cool would go a long way to increasing safety and comfort in high temps. I wonder why this has never been tried, perhaps just not enough of a market.

 

Safety certification is probably the biggest issue. Heavier helmets can cause more neck injuries, and impact testing would be expensive and probably need to be conducted on each brand and model of helmet fitted with the device.

[walton66]

perhaps this is a simpler solution. any experience with this anyone?

 

http://www.whpmotorsports.com/coolshirt/cs_cycle/motorcycle_cs.html

[smiller]

perhaps this is a simpler solution. any experience with this anyone?

 

http://www.whpmotorsports.com/coolshirt/cs_cycle/motorcycle_cs.html

That is essentially the same as the Veskimo, discussed earlier in the thread.

[SHIMHEAD]

I may try to get a few pics together of the parts I mentioned, and get some feedback here as to whether this idea would really be feasible or not. I was thinking that the hardware could be in a separate package with a flexible/insulated hose attached to soft distribution fitting on the helmet, possibly replacing the neck roll. My gut feeling is that it is not only feasible, but the engineering is already done, and all that is needed is to adapt the existing parts. As a side note I also have an old Snap-On tool that expels both heated and cooled air from both ends of a tube that connects to an air hose, marketed as a "choke tester". I'm pretty sure it works by PFM, it has always intrigued me.

[Rinkydink]

I'm with everyone else and don't put much stock in this product. I hate that because as I get older I refuse to ride when it's 90-100F and 90% humidity. It just zaps me and takes all the fun out of it. I wish I could handle it better as I see plenty of ATGATT people around here doing it. They must be better men than me...

[Sinman]

A really inexpensive way to keep cool is to use a camelback water pack, freeze it and wear it under your jacket.

Also has the benefit of providing cool water to drink through the tube while riding.