Locator devices 2013

[AnotherLee]

A recent story got my interest in locator devices - especially for those of us who often ride alone.

***Local news story of lost motorcyclist***

I see locator devices have been discussed previously (2008) on bmwst:

***BMWST 2008 discussion***

I'd be interested in your opinions of currently available locator devices.

I'm sure we all hope for the safe recovery of this individual.

[Kathy R]

Thanks for that link about the missing rider. If you don't mind, I'm going to start a thread on that, in the hope that folks in the area can be of help in the search.

 

Today, while reading a magazine, I became aware of this $14,000 emergency watch. Breitling

[David13]

Spot is the big one. You will find some talk about it here, but where it is big big talk is Advrider.

Those are the serious off road guys who really need it.

On the road, which is what I do, or accessible trails, which I rarely do, someone else is always coming along after a few minutes.

I don't think I could bleed to death in a few minutes, and if I do, the locator device couldn't help me anyway.

dc

[AnotherLee]

Thanks, David. All good info.

Sorry to report the rider was found deceased.

***Local news story***

Interesting thing is he had a locator device, it just wasn't "activated". I believe you can see it in the picture on his left arm.

[steveknapp]

Looks like the Breitling is "just" a watch sized PLB. You can buy a larger one for ~250.

 

http://www.acrartex.com/products/catalog/personal-locator-beacons/resqlinkplus/

 

I switched from SPOT to a PLB as my need is really only a distress signal. I don't value the tracking as much.

 

With either you need to push a button to make them send for help and they need a clear view of the sky. If you are unable to do this they won't help.

 

"Lutter was wearing a personal locator beacon but it was not activated, Hall said."

[smiller]

I think that unfortunately in this case there was no one left alive to activate it.

[Matts_12GS]

I'm a big fan of the SPOT. I think they work well for the money and can be a big help.

 

The problem with them lies in if you're a cheapskate like me and don't turn the tracking on. If you don't let it automatically track you, if you're incapacitated, there's not necessarily a bread crumb to say where you are.

 

If they were to reshape their pricing model, I think they would be a far more useful technology

 

 

[enfoman]

I'm a big fan of the SPOT. I think they work well for the money and can be a big help.

 

The problem with them lies in if you're a cheapskate like me and don't turn the tracking on. If you don't let it automatically track you, if you're incapacitated, there's not necessarily a bread crumb to say where you are.

 

If they were to reshape their pricing model, I think they would be a far more useful technology

 

 

*1 on that. What I tend to do (but not often enough lately) is to hit the ok button at a critical route turn to my destination. I have found by review of my route that the signal gets to the sat. a bit late or never at some turns.

[David13]

As far as I know, the dead are seldom able to activate the Spot device.

If you want the tracking factor, if you want to leave the breadcrumbs, just pay the price. If you think you need or want it.

I'm seldom far off the beaten path. And the beaten path usually has another one coming along in a few minutes (car, truck, bus, cop, biker, etc.)

I don't need or want the tracker.

dc

[ESokoloff]

Looks like the Breitling is "just" a watch sized PLB. You can buy a larger one for ~250.

 

http://www.acrartex.com/products/catalog/personal-locator-beacons/resqlinkplus/

 

I switched from SPOT to a PLB as my need is really only a distress signal. I don't value the tracking as much.

 

With either you need to push a button to make them send for help and they need a clear view of the sky. If you are unable to do this they won't help.

 

"Lutter was wearing a personal locator beacon but it was not activated, Hall said."

 

I don't understand why a device can't be made that will automatically trigger after it's been subjected to a momentary high "G" event followed by sustained non movement.

After such event, it would sound a warning along with flashing LED's (and perhaps even vibrate) to indicate it's about to start transmitting. If you are Ok this would allow you to cancel before transmission.

If you are not Ok, this device would automatically arm & then transmit a distress signal.

 

RIP.

 

 

[MT Wallet]

Eric,

You make perfect sense. I'd get a SPOT if it functioned like that for the right $$.

[AnotherLee]

How about a smartphone app that tracks the phone?

Here's an example app for iphone: ***iphone tracking app***

Even if you were out of cellphone range, it might still give an indication of where you were in general. Very low cost ($2.99). Downside: you need someone to keep an eye on your progress.

[ESokoloff]

Actually there are

that do just this but they are smart phone dependent and geared toward cyclists.

Won't do you any good out of cell coverage tho.

[smiller]

I don't understand why a device can't be made that will automatically trigger after it's been subjected to a momentary high "G" event followed by sustained non movement.

I think the problem is that the device is used by so many individuals doing so many activities that finding a profile that would work for all (or even most) would be nearly impossible. How many g's, and how long until a trigger? Would street motorcyclists need the same profile as off-road motorcyclists or skydivers or backpackers or hang gliders or mountain bikers or (on and on and on.) Will people involved in these activities always place the units so that they can hear or feel the alert? Should every alerts (including the many false alarms that would be inherent) be considered a life and death emergency and dispatched as such? Who pays for erroneous dispatches? And who gets sued when it doesn't work?

 

Features like this seem simple but in the real world they can be nearly impossible to implement in a multi-use consumer device.

[David13]

And how much would this device cost?

$19.95 at WalMart? And Made In China? And you are going to have your life depend on it?

Or would it cost like a satellite phone?

False calls?

Do you realize how many false calls Spot has? There are many cases of people hitting the emergency button when they can't find a gas station.

When they forgot to bring their sleeping bag.

When they couldn't find a good restaurant.

Etc.

You would never believe how the and emergency services are abused.

dc

[BrianM]

I don't understand why a device can't be made that will automatically trigger after it's been subjected to a momentary high "G" event followed by sustained non movement.

After such event, it would sound a warning along with flashing LED's (and perhaps even vibrate) to indicate it's about to start transmitting. If you are Ok this would allow you to cancel before transmission.

If you are not Ok, this device would automatically arm & then transmit a distress signal.

 

RIP.

 

 

You mean something like this

http://www.schuberth.com/en/motorcycle/riderecall-system.html

[smiller]

You mean something like this

http://www.schuberth.com/en/motorcycle/riderecall-system.html

That's how you'd need to do it, i.e. something tailored specifically to an intended use (motorcycling in this case) and, just as important, with a method for the dispatch center to check for unintended/accidental alerts. Since SPOT and most emergency beacons have only a forward link that capability doesn't exist. The only problem I'd have with the referenced system is that it is cellular-based, and the times when you would need a man-down alert most is in rural/remote areas where no one is likely to see you... just the places where cellular often doesn't work.

[MT Wallet]

And how much would this device cost?

$19.95 at WalMart? And Made In China? And you are going to have your life depend on it?

Or would it cost like a satellite phone?

False calls?

Do you realize how many false calls Spot has? There are many cases of people hitting the emergency button when they can't find a gas station.

When they forgot to bring their sleeping bag.

When they couldn't find a good restaurant.

Etc.

You would never believe how the and emergency services are abused.

dc

 

Oh, you're describing the Life Alert-"I've fallen and I can't get up!!" guys. That's one more device with false alerts I bet.

[ESokoloff]

I don't understand why a device can't be made that will automatically trigger after it's been subjected to a momentary high "G" event followed by sustained non movement.

I think the problem is that the device is used by so many individuals doing so many activities that finding a profile that would work for all (or even most) would be nearly impossible. How many g's, and how long until a trigger? Would street motorcyclists need the same profile as off-road motorcyclists or skydivers or backpackers or hang gliders or mountain bikers or (on and on and on.) Will people involved in these activities always place the units so that they can hear or feel the alert? Should every alerts (including the many false alarms that would be inherent) be considered a life and death emergency and dispatched as such? Who pays for erroneous dispatches? And who gets sued when it doesn't work?

 

Features like this seem simple but in the real world they can be nearly impossible to implement in a multi-use consumer device.

 

Maybe I'm under/over thinking it, but it seems to me that such a device is or will be possible given sufficient enough sensers and artificial intelligence.

 

Will one device serve all needs?

Perhaps, if the device can be field configured for different parameters appropriate to ones needs (sport).

 

As far as prevention of false alarms, additional/remote LED indicators and/or audio devices would be advised to incorporate. These could be hard wired or Blue-toothed.

 

Can't address your questions of liability, but I firmly believe with a quality system(hardware, software, programming), false alarms could be minimized (user error excluded).

 

As far as the cost of false alarms, what is the cost of searches for lost individuals?

The most extreme to date was for Steve Fossett at 2.6 million according to wiki.

Some of the cost of increased false alarms MAY be offset with the increased usage (tho wishful thinking on my part I'm sure).

 

 

[ESokoloff]

I don't understand why a device can't be made that will automatically trigger after it's been subjected to a momentary high "G" event followed by sustained non movement.

After such event, it would sound a warning along with flashing LED's (and perhaps even vibrate) to indicate it's about to start transmitting. If you are Ok this would allow you to cancel before transmission.

If you are not Ok, this device would automatically arm & then transmit a distress signal.

 

RIP.

 

 

You mean something like this

http://www.schuberth.com/en/motorcycle/riderecall-system.html

 

Yes but not solely cell transmission dependent.