2014 Valkyrie

[Ponch]

The Harley is a "Me Too" bike.

"I have a V-twin", "Me too".

This design does have a very loyal following because they are thin to sit on and are powerful. Quite a few motorcycle manufacturers have taken advantage of this by hopping on that band wagon. But the V-4, in-line 3 or 4, and opposing 4 or 6, are much smoother motors.

 

I'm looking to buy a new bike. I like big naked cruisers.

The Yamaha V-MAX gets 75 miles to a tank, has a high performance, bad-to-the-bone 175hp motor, but has the same up-keep that all high performance bikes have. The Triumph Rocket III, and the Honda Valkyrie have mid-performance motors that are so large, that these bikes are also considered to be high performance, yet are very low maintenance. I like everything about the Triumph Rocket III except the large air cleaner is in my way. The Honda Valkyrie is thin, and more comfortable for me to sit on. Since they've added fuel injection to the list of up-grades, it also gets 10 more Horse Power and better gas mileage. I also like the radiator design. In 1976, my KZ900 cost me $2,600. Man, have the prices gone up. The Triumph Rocket III is $15,999, and the Honda Valkyrie and the Yamaha V-MAX are both $17,999.

 

There's always the S1000RR.

[The Unforgiven]

The BMW S1000RR is a great bike, but it is a café racer style bike. I'm 59 years old. Although I am in great shape and love fast bikes, the big naked cruisers are more my style.

BMW-S1000RR

Yamaha-VMAX

Honda Valkyrie

Triumph Rocket III

 

[Ponch]

I wouldn't entertain any of them as I can only have one bike and it has to do it all, which means it's needs storage and I like wind protection too. With a bad back, something with a good suspension helps as well. If I could have several bikes, it would be a bit different.

[BULLman]

Really enjoyed my 1999 Valkyrie Tourer.

 

Traded her in, mostly, because the big ass chrome engine, and I wasn't keep up with it (cleaning).

 

In retro-spec, I never should of traded her... should of gotten some black paint.

 

Like the Blacked out engine, but no hard bags.

Won't/Can't do $18k.

[TEWKS]

I can't seem to separate the vid from the page (probably on purpose) but take a look at this guy in the first post. Honda should hire him for a comercial.

 

http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=935811&page=24

 

 

Pat

[markgoodrich]

Hang on a minute Fernando!

 

I would agree that Honda haven't done much for our sport-touring segment recently. However I do regard the VFR1200 as a significant on-road development & don't understand why it has been such a flop in the market as a replacement for the CB1100XX. Is it just that the market has shifted to adventure bikes?

 

Honda is certainly in the business of mass transportation in local markets using local factories - and is very successful. It is what I would be doing if I ran Honda. China, India and South America is where the market growth is - and even the automobile companies can't build factories there fast enough.

 

Coming back to our segment - the CEO of BMW recently remarked that whatever anyone does H-D will still hold over 70% of the "heavy" touring market in the USA and H-D is doing extremely well in Germany, of all places.

 

So the answer seems to be the Honda is not investing in the high-end market during the recession in the developed world and focussing on emerging markets where simplicity with strong Western overtones is what sells bikes. I think the jury is still out on whether this is a long term strategy.

 

There is certainly nothing that I fancy out of the current Honda range (well, apart from my Honda scooter!)

 

John, as you know, it's always a pleasure to read your well-thought-out observations. I think I agree with part of them, which means I'm in good company. But the market in the UK and Europe does differ a bit than the U.S. Certainy if Harley can maintain large-displacement market share in the U.S., and BMW/KTM/Triumph/Ducati grow theirs during the WWRecession, then Honda could, too. But over the past decade, it seems to have slowed new model development in that segment to a crawl. The VFR1200 being an exception, albeit a floundering one stateside (Europe, too?). So it kills off the ST1300/Pan and introduces the F6B and this new Valk? I don't see them as replacements, but a "bagger" GW variant and a resuscitation of a lamented model it also "wisely" chose to terminate.

 

We agree about the massive profits of emerging-market local production (tax breaks) of long-since-amortized small-displacement models with exceptional reliability records. And marketing's being handled through race wins and associative references to performance and reliability. But through the middle and up top, the Wing's been the same for nearly a decade (recent update being mostly cosmetic in the overall meaning of "update"). The cruisers are pretty stagnant (we see more Yamaha and Kawasaki high-bars on the road than Hondas here in CA). And apparently Honda sees only the entry level as worthy of new models, the CBR250/300 and three CB500 variants attesting, and even they are 5 years late to market. So, IMHO, Honda has changed its business plan. It is no longer interested in being #1 in all categories. It has decided that IF it's going to continue in the two-wheeled game, that its fortunes are tied to selective volume rather than overall volume. And those selective categories, to me, are global two-wheeled transportation, but only a little that I can consider a true, fully capable, excitement filled machines that I would call a "motorcycles." I still think Honda has, for the most part, abandoned that, although there are a few CBR examples in limited production and playing off the MotoGP rep, and in some cases, just the livery. So I see them actually sliding out of the "motorcycle" business and becoming the VW of two wheels in the underdeveloped or struggling world, which today is most places. Not a bad plan. But not the Honda with the killer instinct of old. Just the revenue instinct. As for whether this is a long-term strategy, if it isn't then Honda is betting that it can regain midsize market share on the strength of its name, rather than by maintaining at least a stagnant presence, which I think is dangerous when approaching current and future customers who would say, "Soichiro who?".

 

I think the game plan has changed a bit for everyone else, too. Yamaha's mid-size street bikes start with FZR's, and Kawasaki has almost nothing between their top selling 250/300 Ninja and the similarly branded 636 (although the Versys and variants could be considered mid-size in performance to their similarly displaced four-cylinder brethren). Suzuki, divested of its mishandled car division and clinging life every day by more and more than just its fingernails, survives by means of SV650, V-strom and ATV sales (and a few GSX-R's to the rare 19-y/o who has a job), strong marine sales, and a stubborn belief that Power Cruisers are what posers are really looking for.

 

I've spent my career in this industry. So that means what, that I've got about double the insight of the average consumer's 5% when it comes to figuring out what the Japanese are trying to do? That's still bupkus. But it's what I base my opinions on and unless I come to learn more than I currently know, I'm sticking to it.

 

Perhaps some day we can discuss this over a properly poured black and tan.

 

John, you and Fernando both make some good points about Honda (why are we talking about this?), and I agree with both of you on most of it. However, perhaps another way to look at it is that Honda has seen the future more clearly than some, and decided the mid-large displacement touring and sport touring segments are too small, and shrinking, and as John points out, the Adventure segment is growing and replacing many touring and even sport touring bikes (the new BMW 1000 whatsit "adv" bike is a perfect example). We may see Honda appear with genuine competition to the KTMs, GSs, etc etc etc in the next year or two, or not. The combined Europe (includes Middle East, Africa, Russia, and Ukraine ) and North American markets made up under 3.6% of worldwide Honda motorcycle sales (includes ATVs) in 2013. Honda sold almost 18 million motorcycles that year...doesn't sound to me like a legacy a car company is holding onto out of nostalgia. The rather tortured path I'm taking to what I hope is my point is that Honda doesn't need the market we're discussing here, and has no huge incentive to innovate...today. As they watch the worldwide sales of what we're calling the Adventure segment increase, I expect we'll see some interesting Hondas come on the market.

 

As a point of interest, in 2013 U. S. BMW motorcycle sales increased almost 13% over the previous year. However, the total U. S. sales were less than 10% of the company's worldwide sales.

 

It's interesting to note that U. S. motorcycle sales peaked in 2005, and from 2010-13 remained essentially flat, at about half the peak.