Well, kiss the Internet as you know it goodbye...

[TyTass]

"So, the state decides to build another highway and pave the last remaining piece of bare earth in SoCal; however, instead of building toll road so it can be paid for by users, some poor bastard in Medocino county who doesn't own a car or will never drive one in SoCal gets to pay for it. Yep. That's fair."

 

Yep… eminently fair. Mr. I-don't-have-a car does go to his local grocery store by bicycle or walking to it and buys the bananas in the produce aisle that was delivered by truck USING the roadway he does not use. He benefits, indirectly. Same argument is used by the childless who have to pay for public schools via tax dollars. An educated workforce benefits all.

 

Mr. I-don't-have-a-car goes to the store to buy the banana. So, he then pays highway taxes as part of his Federal, state, local income and/or property taxes ... and perhaps sales tax as well. The truck driver who delivered that banana also pays highway taxes as part of his Federal, state, local income and/or property taxes ... and perhaps sales tax as well. The trucking company who the truck driver works for pays corporate taxes and may also pay freight taxes. The highway construction worker gets paid (either directly or by contract) to build/maintain those roads also pays highway taxes as part of his Federal, state, local income and/or property taxes. Everyone in the state highway administration gets paid via these and other taxes to manage maintenance of those roads. This includes highway planning engineers, project managers, contract specialists, executives, executive support staff, illustrators, analysts, IT staff & management, HR staff & management, facilities staff & management, and the list goes on and on and on. And of course, I haven't even gotten to the various bean-counters and politicians and staff in DC who manage the reallocation and redistribution of these and other highway taxes back to the state highway administration, so they can build or upkeep the roads, all take a cut of the pie. However, all those state and federal workers pay highway taxes as part of their Federal, state, local income and/or property taxes ... and perhaps sales tax as well.

 

illustration>

 

One might view all that as a wonderful system ... all those employed people sharing in paying of these taxes with the millions of Jane & John Doe tax payers ... just think of all that money being collected and put to great use. Heck, when you think about it, all those state and federal workers are kinda paying their own salaries! Isn't that neat?

 

OTOH, one might look at that system and question where all that tax revenue came from in the first place ... the tax revenue that paid for all those salaries of everyone in the illustration (well, everyone except for Mr. I-don't-have-a-car buying the banana). And then ... one might further think about all the medical benefits and retirement payments (again, both something Mr. I-don't-have-a-car buying the banana and many Jane & John Doe taxpayers don't have), one might question how supportable such a system would be if there aren't strict limits, or anything people get really excited about transferring more and more services under government control. Are there really enough Jan & John Does to cover that more and more?

 

As I said before, I believe it is the government's job to build and maintain infrastructure, in this case and a number of others, as well as other aspects of the nation's mission statement. However, because of the system above is the necessary result of having the government run these sorts of things, We The People should be extremely cautious about how many services we task our various levels of government to provide. In fact, I believe it our responsibility to question and debate each and every service that gets rolled up under government both generally and specifically.

 

So debate of these issues is good ... and the Common Good must be proved and not invoked as an incantation.

[tallman]

I tried to kiss the internet goodbye last nite but it came back this morning...

[John Ranalletta]

People make choices that increase the "infrastructure" costs to support those choices. USPS should charge by weight and distance from sender to recipient. Power companies should charge by usage and distance from power generation point to account for line loss. Californians build houses were they're most likely to catch fire, but want the state to stand the cost of putting out the fires. Others want to build houses on the seashore but expect FEMA to rebuild them when nature does what it's expected to do. New Orleans residences live below sea level, hoping the pumps don't fail and want the USACE to rebuild NO when they do.

 

Today, I drove from Orlando to Naples. I could have chosen side roads with no tolls. Instead, I elected to use the toll roads and paid the price. I had a choice. The guy without a car in Mendocino doesn't have that choice about paying for San Diegans' choices to live where traffic is a nightmare.

 

When Bostonians were filling the bay with crap, US taxpayers ponied up $7billion to strain it out for them when Boston should have curtailed development and raised user sewer rates to strain their shit out of their harbor.

 

Our system (common good) fosters and enables nincompoop life decisions.

[Dave McReynolds]

"So, the state decides to build another highway and pave the last remaining piece of bare earth in SoCal; however, instead of building toll road so it can be paid for by users, some poor bastard in Medocino county who doesn't own a car or will never drive one in SoCal gets to pay for it. Yep. That's fair."

 

Yep… eminently fair. Mr. I-don't-have-a car does go to his local grocery store by bicycle or walking to it and buys the bananas in the produce aisle that was delivered by truck USING the roadway he does not use. He benefits, indirectly. Same argument is used by the childless who have to pay for public schools via tax dollars. An educated workforce benefits all.

 

Mr. I-don't-have-a-car goes to the store to buy the banana. So, he then pays highway taxes as part of his Federal, state, local income and/or property taxes ... and perhaps sales tax as well. The truck driver who delivered that banana also pays highway taxes as part of his Federal, state, local income and/or property taxes ... and perhaps sales tax as well. The trucking company who the truck driver works for pays corporate taxes and may also pay freight taxes. The highway construction worker gets paid (either directly or by contract) to build/maintain those roads also pays highway taxes as part of his Federal, state, local income and/or property taxes. Everyone in the state highway administration gets paid via these and other taxes to manage maintenance of those roads. This includes highway planning engineers, project managers, contract specialists, executives, executive support staff, illustrators, analysts, IT staff & management, HR staff & management, facilities staff & management, and the list goes on and on and on. And of course, I haven't even gotten to the various bean-counters and politicians and staff in DC who manage the reallocation and redistribution of these and other highway taxes back to the state highway administration, so they can build or upkeep the roads, all take a cut of the pie. However, all those state and federal workers pay highway taxes as part of their Federal, state, local income and/or property taxes ... and perhaps sales tax as well.

 

illustration>

 

One might view all that as a wonderful system ... all those employed people sharing in paying of these taxes with the millions of Jane & John Doe tax payers ... just think of all that money being collected and put to great use. Heck, when you think about it, all those state and federal workers are kinda paying their own salaries! Isn't that neat?

 

OTOH, one might look at that system and question where all that tax revenue came from in the first place ... the tax revenue that paid for all those salaries of everyone in the illustration (well, everyone except for Mr. I-don't-have-a-car buying the banana). And then ... one might further think about all the medical benefits and retirement payments (again, both something Mr. I-don't-have-a-car buying the banana and many Jane & John Doe taxpayers don't have), one might question how supportable such a system would be if there aren't strict limits, or anything people get really excited about transferring more and more services under government control. Are there really enough Jan & John Does to cover that more and more?

 

As I said before, I believe it is the government's job to build and maintain infrastructure, in this case and a number of others, as well as other aspects of the nation's mission statement. However, because of the system above is the necessary result of having the government run these sorts of things, We The People should be extremely cautious about how many services we task our various levels of government to provide. In fact, I believe it our responsibility to question and debate each and every service that gets rolled up under government both generally and specifically.

 

So debate of these issues is good ... and the Common Good must be proved and not invoked as an incantation.

 

If all this is true, then my only question is, why aren't the highways in California getting repaired?

[TyTass]

Excellent question.