Another seat question

[bmwdavid]

I just bought a 2009 R1200RT with stock heated seats. I am 5'-7" with a 29-30" inseam. I know as comfortable as a Russell is it wont work for me. So my question is, what are my options? Seriously thinking of trying a standard height Sargent but wondering how much better than stock they are. What else has anyone looking for something no taller than stock tried? I was going to consider a Bill Mayer but recently heard some horror stories. How about his brother Rocky or a Corbin? Has anyone considered using a local seat builder that may not be well known but maybe could get a custom fit? I really don't want to try multiple sets of seats to find a good seat and will want to retain the heat option.

[bmwdavid]

Also, I am on the heavier side at 220lbs.

[tallman]

David,

 

No solution except seat time by you.

 

Every saddle has supporters and detractors.

 

We each have different builds.

 

I can't stand RDL as it hits my thighs in the wrong way.

Most everyone loves them.

 

Sargents are fair, for me.

 

Corbins too hard but mySO liked the saddle.

 

Rick Mayer, ones I've tried were great and I would consider, for me.

 

Spencer at Great Day to Ride has mostly positive reports and is waaayyy less money and fast turn around.

 

Rich in Seattle gets positive reviews.

 

TouraTech seems mostly positive but when we sold them we had mixed reports. Truly go.no go depending on each rider.

 

Cee Bailey's, I don't have enough experience but have heard good reports.

 

We/ve used sheepskin and Air Hawks for the past couple hundred thousand miles.

Works for us and allows flexibility based on type of riding.

Many good reports on those but also many don't ever get happy w/an Air Hawk.

Since the combo works for us, and is transferable, that's my solution.

Coupled with the right gear and undergarment we have done 700+ mile days (could have done more but we were there).

 

Hope you can get with some other riders and try other saddles as it is frustrating to thorw money at this problem and not find your solution.

Best wishes.

[marc11]

Check out Baldwin seats. He reworks your stock seat to address the main concerns such as fixing slope or using firmer foam, etc.

 

I never like Corbin way too hard for me. I have an RDL and its great while riding but way too tall and wide for me when stopped at lights, on hills or in stop and go traffic which is a lot if my commute so I went back to OEM with my Alaska Sheep pad. Been using the sheep for about 5 or more years now and its amazing the amount of comfort it adds.

 

BTW, Baldwin did my Versys seat and turned it into a comfy 1000 mile day seat.

 

What about the stock seat don't you like?

[Guest Kakugo]

Kahedo, buy Kahedo... best saddle I've ever had.

[bmwdavid]

I am going to try the stock seat in the spring but when I had my 05 1200RT the stock seat was painful after an hour of riding. With the 05 I tried a Russell but it was just too tall. Then went to a Rick Mayer which was a nice seat but ended up selling the bike before really knowing how good it was. I now just purchased a 2009 and starting over again. Hope to find something because after owning a GL1800 Goldwing comfort will be hard to beat.

[MT Wallet]

I hate to dump on Spencer's seats and he makes a good modification-so I've heard. I've e-mailed the guy a couple of time with several months in between e-mailings. He never responded. I was in another forum and there was another couple of people with the same experience. In fairness a couple of people said he responded to them-almost too much. I don't know how you do business if you're that inconsistent. Just saying. You may have a great experience, then again maybe not.

I have a Sargent. It's easy to get the feet to the ground but sits very uncomfortably. I'm 5'9" with a 29-30" inseam. Slight hijack: Does anyone know how to determine which model the seat is?

[bmwdavid]

Do you have the low or regular height sargent seat? What do you mean by it sits uncomfortably?

[MT Wallet]

The seat came with the bike. I can't tell you if it is stock or the low version. That's why I asked if there is a way to identify the version.

When I ride I sit back in the saddle as far as possible. I find in short order, say 20 miles, I get pain across the ischial tuberosity of the hipbone or about where your legs connect to the pelvis. It looks like there is a slight raised edge of foam running through the area on both sides running back to forward. Anyway after about 20 miles the nerve through there and going down the legs starts to get sore and then sorer and sorer.

[DiggerJim]

I just bought a 2009 R1200RT with stock heated seats. I am 5'-7" with a 29-30" inseam. I know as comfortable as a Russell is it wont work for me. I was going to consider a Bill Mayer but recently heard some horror stories. How about his brother Rocky

Couple of things. I've got a 30" inseam and an RDL. No, I can't flat foot it but I don't need to either. I can back it up and such on the balls of my feet. For normal stopping, etc. I only touch down with my left foot. It's what I was taught in school (left foot down, right foot on the brake) and the only thing possible for most people with tall dirt bikes or the GS type. Growing up, flat footing was something cruisers did.

 

I also have a Bill (Rocky) Mayer saddle. That's my daily rider as it's good for up to a 1000 mile day (the RDL is good for several 1000 mile days in a row). When I was looking for that one (got it before my Russell) there was a lot of inconsistent reviews of his brother Rick's business practices, communication, etc. Lots of good but also lots of bad. Bill is Rocky and the online reviews were almost all positive. I don't recall any negative ones but there might have been some - just know that there was a lot of negativity out there for Rick. Figured there wasn't a reason to roll the dice and hope for a "good Rick" experience when the odds were way better I'd get a "good Bill" experience. Bill is Bill Jr (named after his father) and Rocky was (is?) his nickname from when Bill Sr was alive and working with him after selling his seat to Russell.

[bmwdavid]

I know you aren't bothered by not being able to flat foot but I would at least like to have a firm landing on the balls of my feet. Does the Rocky Mayer seat give you a much better footing? Did you go with vinyl or leather on the two different seats and would you go with the same again?

[Doug_Baliko]

Like Tim said, there are many reviews by members on all the brands, of which most are are reported as a positive improvement over the stock seat. I had a Kahedo seat and I wasn't all that impressed. Especially for the $1300 cost. While I could only ride the stock seat for 100 miles before I was in discomfort, and multi day trips ended up being agony, the Kahedo was a big improvement. Although for me, the Kahedo was only a 200-250 mile seat. After that I wasn't comfortable.

I now have an RDL and I'm very happy with it. For me it's a 500 plus mile seat. And I have done 900+ mile days with very reasonable comfort. I have had my RDL on my RT for two 5000 mile week long trips without issues and in total comfort.

 

I hope that this helps.

 

Doug

[DiggerJim]

I know you aren't bothered by not being able to flat foot but I would at least like to have a firm landing on the balls of my feet. Does the Rocky Mayer seat give you a much better footing? Did you go with vinyl or leather on the two different seats and would you go with the same again?

The Mayer does allow for better footing with 2 feet - not as much ball of the foot and more like 3/4 length. There is a difference based on footwear too - my BMW boots (a separate welted sole) are better than my Dianese (waterproof sealed sole to boot leather). The extra 1/8 or 1/4" of boot sole makes more of a difference than I would have expected. My Limmer backpacking boots are flat footers - those have thick soles & deep lugs. So what you wear for boots can make a big difference.

 

I got vinyl on the Mayer and leather on the Russell. My Mayer I only got the front & kept the rear seat stock. The vinyl matches. The RDL I got both - my son & I were taking a long (4K) trip last summer so I figured he should get to be comfortable too

 

The vinyl on the Mayer looks almost like the leather on the RDL. It's comfortable, doesn't get too hot/sweaty (but I ride mostly the east coast so no idea how either would do in the deserts of the southwest). The leather RDL is also comfortable. The bike lives in the garage when not on the road so weather/sun isn't a big issue. I sometimes cover the bike when on the road and sometimes not. Hasn't made a difference. Price being what it is, I'd go with vinyl again. I've had the Mayer 4 yrs and the RDL 2.

 

Both have heat. The RDL has its own connector so I had to splice another one in to mate with the stock wiring or go direct wiring. Since it has a separate switch from the handlebar switch I wired it to my FuzeBlock. The Mayer connects to the stock wiring and is controlled by the handlebar switch. The edge goes to the RDL because it's thermostatically controlled so it goes on & heats to 110 degrees vs. the 2 stage heating of the stock (& Mayer) seat that sometimes gets too hot on high.

[DiggerJim]

BTW, weight matters. At 220 you're probably best suited to an RDL. They have a torsion spring in the seat to help manage the weight and the wings on the sides help distribute it better than the more stock-like shape of the Mayer. I think Bill Mayer recommends his seats only up to about 210 or so because he's only working with foam.

 

Since you're in CT if you want to try each you can borrow mine. They won't be quite as comfortable as they would be if they were made for you but should give you a sense of the difference.

 

I'm 5' 8" and 175lbs but have been as heavy as 190.

 

[bmwdavid]

Didn't notice you are also in CT. This could save me a lot of time and money by trying the seats. I appreciate the offer and would like to take you up on the offer. Probably won't do it until spring but will send you a PM this weekend. Thanks again.

[TomSSRT]

I'm using a Rick Mayer (RM) leather. With the OEM lower seat pan. My inseam is >30 but <31 inches. I'm riding an 06 RRT w/ESA. Pillion and I have made several several long trips on this setup. We tried Alaska Leather on the OEM seats and transferred the Alaska to RM. The sheep skins work summer, fall, winter, and spring.

[Fathom]

Check out Baldwin seats. He reworks your stock seat to address the main concerns such as fixing slope or using firmer foam, etc.

 

I did quite a bit (and I mean a lot) of digging on the subject, being in (roughly) the same 220 lb, 31.5" inseam boat. Loren will be building me a Baldwin sport saddle for my '13 RT next week; check the thread I've started on this around the end of January for the initial report. As others have said elsewhere, so far, he's been very much the real deal in terms of responsiveness, willingness to work with you to figure out what will work best, and from what I can tell so far, is a straight-up, old school artisan. Sent my stockers off to him a couple of days ago, in good faith and with a good feeling that the results will be worthwhile. Stay tuned -- I'll let you know, for sure.

[RichM]

I'm riding to Red Bluff Saturday morning to have Rick build me a saddle. My 30" inseam needs a little help, I'm only asking for 3/4" and if needed I'll have him shave of another 1/4". Any more and the comfort level fades. He's satisfied my butt on my 04 RT, and the K1200GT.

[Selden]

I don't think you're really getting a "custom" seat until you can ride to a seat maker and get it fitted. My RT came with a Sargent, but it always felt too flat, high, and hard. I picked up a used Rick Mayer from someone on this list a couple of years ago, but it was made for someone much shorter than me, had too little padding, and forced me to seat in a "valley" where movement was impossible. I re-shaped it, adding more padding, and while it was better, the nose was still a little too narrow, so I didn't have proper support under my thighs, and the foam I used was too hard.

 

Last Sunday, I rode down to Jacksonville with the old Sargent strapped to the passenger seat, stayed overnight at Calvin's place (in the Marty Hill suite), and showed up on Sargent's doorstep ust after 8:00 Monday morning. I sat on the low version, which was way too low (even for someone with a 29" inseam), and lacking in padding. The standard seat was an improvement on what I rode down on, but pushed me too far back into a pocket, which made my arms feel stretched. Sargent will make a completely custom seat, but the price goes up quite a bit, and they really want to put you on one of their stock seats. In the end, I elected to go with the stock shape, with about 1/2" shaved off the front of the seat, which eliminated the problem of being pushed too far back, and I felt that it was "good enough."

 

Due to this week's unfortunate weather forecast for Atlanta, I was hot to trot, and hit the road back at 10:00, although they could have finished the seat if I had been able to wait a couple more hours. One point on pricing: if you pick up a seat at Sargent's, it's subject to local sales tax; if they ship it out of state, no tax, which about equals the shipping charge. In my case, I had two seats, so this was an easy decision.

 

I really don't think there is anything magic about seats; if you can find a good upholstery shop near you, with people who will work with you until it feels right, I think you can get as good or better result as any off-the-shelf "custom" seat, even if it comes from a famous specialist seat maker. If you live close to Cee Bailey, or one of the Mayers, or Russell, or any number of others, and can ride in for a fitting, great, but if it's a 2000-mile trip, you may be better off talking with people nearer to home.

 

I'm expecting a break-in period, and probably won't log any serious seat time until spring, but I measured the height of both my old seat and the Sargent, and found that the latter is about 1/2" lower, which is going to help footing at stops, even though it's a little wider at the front, which should provide more thigh support.

 

Follow-up report later this spring or summer.

[walton66]

I purchased an almost new used low seat Sargent for my 2013 RT also and I cannot ride more than 20 minutes and my legs fall asleep. Interesting to see that it affects you in a similar manner. I took it off after a few rides and it sits under my bench.

[Selden]

While I was at Sargent, they trotted out one of their low seats; 15 seconds was enough to tell that it wouldn't work for me.

 

I had Sargent shave about 1/2" off the front of the seat, as it seemed uptilted so much that it pushed me to the back. Later, I realized that I had 1/4" shims under the front seat mount; removing these made the angle of the Sargent feel much more natural, if still quite firm. Sheepskin + foam pad makes it just about perfect for me, but everybody's butt is different.

 

See also: http://bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=78499&Number=873944#Post873944

 

Back to my earlier assertion, if you can't work with the seat maker, it's not a custom seat.

[moshe_levy]

I just bought a 2009 R1200RT with stock heated seats. I am 5'-7" with a 29-30" inseam. I know as comfortable as a Russell is it wont work for me. So my question is, what are my options? Seriously thinking of trying a standard height Sargent but wondering how much better than stock they are. What else has anyone looking for something no taller than stock tried? I was going to consider a Bill Mayer but recently heard some horror stories. How about his brother Rocky or a Corbin? Has anyone considered using a local seat builder that may not be well known but maybe could get a custom fit? I really don't want to try multiple sets of seats to find a good seat and will want to retain the heat option.

 

Do you get BMW Owner's News? If so, the brand new March issue (with the custom F800 on the front cover) features a full length article called "Flatfooting a BMW On A Budget," by yours truly. Check it out. http://digital.turn-page.com/i/268894 (if you're in the MOA.) If you're NOT in the MOA, PM me and I'll send you a PDF copy of my piece, which will solve your problem entirely.

 

-MKL