K & N Oil FILTER Question

[Michael B]

Does anyone use K & N Oil filters, and if so, what do you think of them?

 

I recently acquired three KN-164 filters from a friend who sold his RT. I looked the model up on K&N's web site and they are spec for my 2011 R1200 RT. In 40,000 miles I've only used BMW branded oil filters, and don't want to make a mistake using an off-brand. I know K & M is a good brand and the filters look and feel quite substantial.

 

Would you use 'em or trash 'em?

[smiller]

There's nothing magical about OEM filters. The K&N (oil) filter is a good product and if it's listed as being the right application for your bike then go ahead and use them.

[mneblett]

There's nothing magical about OEM filters. The K&N (oil) filter is a good product and if it's listed as being the right application for your bike then go ahead and use them.

I completely disagree -- worse filtration than the OE (or Mann equivalent) filters, unless the K&N is over-oiled or clogged with dirt, and no performance gain as these bikes are not flow-contrained by their filters (notwithstanding K&N's massive marketing hype). Plus the added hassle/mess of periodically washing and re-oiling (using their $$ filter oil).

 

OE/Mann filters: better and more consistent-over-life filtration, and more convenient to use. My vote on the K&N's: Straight to the trash can.

[lkraus]

OP is asking about the K&N OIL Filter, not the air filter.

 

Though I agree about the correct resting place for the K&N air filter. Used one on a previous bike, found a substantial layer of dirt caked on the throttle slides 1800 miles later. Never again...

[smiller]

OP is asking about the K&N OIL Filter, not the air filter.

I knew someone was going to misread that

 

Yes, I wouldn't touch a K&N air filter but their line of oil filters seems to be just fine and compares favorably on all the 'oil filter dissection' sites.

[Bernie]

The last time I checked the OLD oil filter was cheaper. Also there was a board member that had a warranty problem because of a K & New oil filter.

[eddd]

 

I'm all in on K+N oil filters. The nut welded on the end is a feature that every oil filter should have. It makes changing so much easier. Quality seems to be good. From what I've read so far they are made by the same people who make Mobil One filters.

 

As an aside, the oil filter on my Miata is a royal pain to get to much less get an oil wrench on it. The K+N has made changing that filter a breeze. If you have a vehicle with a hard to get to filter you might want to consider a K+N with the nut on the end.

 

 

[Michael B]

Thanks everyone for your good answers. From your input, it looks like I will use the K & N filters and not trash 'em. After all, I got them for $10 bucks each!

 

Someone mentioned that using K & N oil filters denied a warranty claim from BMW. Out of curiosity, what was that all about?

 

Thanks again, guys!

[szurszewski]

Thanks everyone for your good answers. From your input, it looks like I will use the K & N filters and not trash 'em. After all, I got them for $10 bucks each!

 

 

Your friend charged you ten a piece for left over $11 filters he no longer had a use for? I used to know a guy like that ... ;p

 

[Stan Walker]

Better $10 than $12.

[szurszewski]

Better $10 than $12.

 

Indeed; that probably came off as more chiding than intended - it was mostly in jest, and in the spirit of the "the cheapest part on a BMW is..." sort of jokes.

 

That said, the guy I was thinking of, at a yard sale when he was moving from a place that would require him to box and ship by mail anything he couldn't carry onto the plane with him, had for sale several boxes of partially eaten foods like breakfast cereals, Bisquick, etc... to me, that's stuff you just give away.

[Fubar]

I'm all in on K+N oil filters. The nut welded on the end is a feature that every oil filter should have. It makes changing so much easier.

It's a great idea but not as substantial as it appears. The last one I used rounded off completely the first time I tried to remove the filter. Then it tore off when I tried to use vise grips. I had to use a really thin, band-style, filter wrench to remove it.

 

And they run $15 around here.

[Joelh]

I'm all in on K+N oil filters. The nut welded on the end is a feature that every oil filter should have. It makes changing so much easier.

It's a great idea but not as substantial as it appears. The last one I used rounded off completely the first time I tried to remove the filter. Then it tore off when I tried to use vise grips. I had to use a really thin, band-style, filter wrench to remove it.

 

And they run $15 around here.

 

This! I had to run a big screw driver through a k&n filter to get it off when the nut rounded off

[eddd]

I'm all in on K+N oil filters. The nut welded on the end is a feature that every oil filter should have. It makes changing so much easier.

It's a great idea but not as substantial as it appears. The last one I used rounded off completely the first time I tried to remove the filter. Then it tore off when I tried to use vise grips. I had to use a really thin, band-style, filter wrench to remove it.

 

And they run $15 around here.

 

This! I had to run a big screw driver through a k&n filter to get it off when the nut rounded off

 

No filter should be that tight to begin with. It would hardly be considered a shortcoming of the nut on the filter if the filter was grossly over-tightened.

[markgoodrich]

It's been a while since I researched RT oil filters, but if memory serves, K&N filters in general came out at the bottom of various tests. However, they're probably good enough for the RT, IF the relief valve spring is of the proper strength AND is in the right location.

 

Yeah, a few years ago there was a big uproar because someone got a warranty claim rejected due to not having an OEM filter. You're out of warranty.

 

My two cents: I researched the filtration capability and relief valve spring rate of the inexpensive Purolator Pure One filter, first through CalSci's website and then double checking the spring rate directly from Purolator. I can't remember which of these two I used, but it's the SHORTER of the two: Purolator PL10241 / PL25230

 

Note, it sticks down further than the OEM filter, but I never had a problem of any sort, including a couple thousand miles of speed bumps (topes) in Mexico.

 

Don't worry, be happy, you'll be fine.

[Calchpboxster]

I have heard of companies offering to I improve the reputation of your company. It maybe that some companies feel they have to trash KnN. I have had good luck with KnN filters I use both the air and oil in my bike. And I do think it allows more oil flow. The air cleaner gave me ten percent more power at certain rpms. And I had a smoother idle.

[dirtrider]

I have heard of companies offering to I improve the reputation of your company. It maybe that some companies feel they have to trash KnN. I have had good luck with KnN filters I use both the air and oil in my bike. And I do think it allows more oil flow. The air cleaner gave me ten percent more power at certain rpms. And I had a smoother idle.

 

Evening Calchpboxster

 

 

10% more power, Wow! That is quite a massive gain, it is very difficult to believe a simple air filter could get any where near 10%.

 

So what was the measured Dyno power at what (certain) RPM's before installing the filter & after installing the filter.

What Dyno brand & Dyno type was used to measure that 10% gain?

 

 

 

[smiller]

10% more power, Wow! That is quite a massive gain, it is very difficult to believe a simple air filter could get any where near 10%.

Especially since in one dyno test I saw (using an R1100RT as the test subject but I don't doubt this would extend to most models) the testers blocked off half of the OEM filter to see what would happen and the result was... no affect on the dyno run at all. If halving the OEM filter area has no ill effect how would increasing the filter size produce 10% more power?

 

If you want easy and inexpensive horsepower gains there's only one thing that always works... the placebo effect.

[Calchpboxster]

Sorry quick response by me. The stock BMW filter seemed restrictive. It was old but not that dirty. Once I put the new KnN in it was much better and responsive, but that is my opinion. I don't really want to start a war about this.

Also I read somewhere else the exact same rant against KnN on a car site. It could have been a Volvo site, since I have owned five. And we know that the filter is recessed into the case on the r1150rt so this nonsense about punching a screwdriver through it happened on some other kind of engine, most likely a car. And that also is due to tightening it on way too much.

[Calchpboxster]

I meant to say in my opinion due to personal experience the KnN air filter was less restrictive and an improvement over the stock thick paper one that looked as if fram made it. And a BMW stock filter was twenty dollars or more, so why not get the better filter for forty bucks?

Wow people really get riled up about oil filters, oils, synthetic versus Dino, and air filters.

[dirtrider]

I meant to say in my opinion due to personal experience the KnN air filter was less restrictive and an improvement over the stock thick paper one that looked as if fram made it. And a BMW stock filter was twenty dollars or more, so why not get the better filter for forty bucks?

Wow people really get riled up about oil filters, oils, synthetic versus Dino, and air filters.

 

Morning Calchpboxster

 

No it's not that at all. It's when we see a very unrealistic claim of a 10% power gain, or smoother idle, attributed to an air filter change without supporting Dyno data that perks our engineering interest. With no Dyno data where could the 10% figure come from?

 

On the BMW boxer's the stock paper filter flows W-A-Y more air than the engine can ever use so even partially plugged it seldom effects engine power or performance.

 

Most of us have no problems with K&N filters it's the power improvement claims (without supporting data) that we heavily question.

[mneblett]

Most of us have no problems with K&N filters it's the power improvement claims (without supporting data) that we heavily question.

Actually, some of us are K&N haters for more than snake-oil claims.

 

In addition to these engines not being flow-constrained by the OE filter, the K&N's particulate filtration capacity is poor. The filter foam when dry allows larger particles through. When oiled heavily enough to capture enough larger particles (i.e., using the dirt to filter further dirt) the foam is flow constrained.

 

Add in the additional mess and effort of maintenance (periodic multi-step cleaning and re-oiling process), and it is clear that K&N is the opposite of win-win -- it's a lose-lose.

[realshelby]

Wow people really get riled up about oil filters, oils, synthetic versus Dino, and air filters.

 

This site is a lot different from others. You won't be bullied, abused, cussed at and so forth. BUT....when you post you have a 10% gain after installing a K&N filter you must have proof. Some of the best technical minds in the motorcycle world hang out here. 10% indicates a proper test of some sort. The facts are that the K&N, or any aftermarket filter, have not proven any increase in performance in actual tests. Statements like yours might mislead others that read it and take it for proven results.

 

When we buy an aftermarket part or accessory we all want to believe it is better and does what the manufacturer says it will. Hard to swallow the truth sometimes. I agree that K&N filters appear to be manufactured well. But the debate over them is not limited to just power and response.

 

We really are here to help!

[lkraus]

Actually, some of us are K&N haters for more than snake-oil claims.

 

My K&N air filter experience as previously reported elsewhere:

"When my previous bike was about 26 years old, I was starting to have a little trouble finding the correct air filter. The K&N cost twice as much, but long term, I thought the renewable K&N would save a little cash, keep me from searching for paper replacements, and maybe their claims of a power increase might be true.

When the bike ran the same as before with no detectable power increase, I was not surprised, but figured at least I had a "lifetime" filter.

Six months later I started having idle problems that I eventually traced to worn seals on the pivoting plate. But I also found that the intake side of the throttle slide and the carb throat were coated with a thick layer of oily mud. Since the air box was dry, I know the oil came from the filter and the dirt came through the filter. The K&N filter and the unused renewal kit went in the trash."

 

I'm not inclined to take a chance on a K&N oil filter.

[Dave_zoom_zoom]

Very insightful. Could be K&N might say that maybe there was too much oil on the filter, but then there is still the dust that was in the mud you found and the worn seals.

 

Thanks Larry

 

Dave

[lkraus]

The filter oil was applied by the factory. I had the renewal kit but never used it.

 

I won't blame the bad seals on the air filter. Age and mileage were the likely culprits there. But they did alert me that my previously pristine carbs were being contaminated by the K&N air filter.