GPS Luddite thinking about joining the 21st Century

[EffBee]

I've got a GPS. A Garmin Nuvi 765T. I've used it in my car for a at least 4-5 years, just to find new addresses in areas with which I wasn't familiar. Works fine. But I've never planned a trip on it (always been a paper map person). I don't even know if I can. But I'm going to the UnRally in Wisconsin and thought, "What the heck." So I was wondering if I could map it out. I've got two possible routes pretty settled going to WI, but I've got four slightly different routes back to SoCal.

 

I've dug out the old Garmin box and there's USB-to-small-flat-plug cable in there, which I imagine is for connecting to a computer. As for computers, I've got an iMac running 10.6.8 and a PC laptop on Win7.

 

Is it possible for me to map out the variations of this trip on this "ancient" GPS, store them on the GPS and then select the ones I finally decide on, even possibly changing them on the fly? Or am I better off picking up something more current? If I can do it with my current unit, what mapping software do I need to download and where is the cleanest download available (I assume Garmin's website). The unit has an audio out port, and I've got an extra open port on my Autocom in my tankbag, along with an isolator, so feeding things into my helmet should be easy. I'm only concerned with getting the mapping done and stored.

 

If it makes any difference, I'm probably talking about 30 waypoints on the outbound trip and about 60 for each of the return routes.

 

Obviously, I've never done this before so I need the simplest solution. Any GPS gurus have some experience they'd like to share.

[JR356]

Need to download Garmin Basecamp to to your Mac,get the latest version.

Can do same to your PC,but folks say the PC version not as good,but load the PC version anyway,in case you travel with your laptop.

 

Go to this link for a Basecamp tutorial:

http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1054359

Other online and Youtube tutorials available.

 

Create your route and load to your Garmin(which will accept routes) using the cable you found.

Put in enough route points,that your unit will not try to alter your route in a significant way.

 

Can then select route in your Garmin and off you go.

Look in owners manual for your unit to see how to load/select routes.

 

Maybe practice with a couple small close to home routes to see how it works.

Just use it in the car for practice.

 

Here is a newer route planning tool to use,it is getting good reviews.

https://trips.furkot.com

 

 

JR356

[marcopolo]

Fernando, first thing I would do is check the specs on your Nuvi. As I understand it, unlike many of the GPSs designed for motorcycle use, many of the Nuvis will not accept many waypoints, or routes for that matter. Best to know this before spending any time creating waypints and/or routes in Basecamp only to find you can't transfer them to your GPS.

 

Edit: according to what I found, it accepts 1,000 waypoints, though it's completely silent on its ability to accept routes from Basecamp (usually a sign that it can't). I say this beacuse the easiest thing to do would be to create waypoints in Basecamp, then create routes using those waypoints and transfer those routes (and their waypoints) to the GPS.

[Effjay]

Like Mark, I also checked Fernando's 765T specs and found that while it doesn't specifically state that its capable of receiving custom routes containing multiple waypoints, seems to me worth trying by downloading Garmin's free BaseCamp utility.

 

In addition to Garmin Zumo550 (and now Nav5 on the 14 RT), I own several Garmin StreetPilot units incl 2/ea 2730 and 2/ea 2720 old-school units. Last year, I bought a newer model Nuvi 3597LMT unit for my truck while one of those 2730 units rides along in a gear bag as backup. Similarly, the newer 3597 doesn't list routing capability (other than simple point-to-point, i.e., from "here" to "there" as in an address or feature). So I just tested by launching BaseCamp, then opened (from laptop saved gps routes file folder) a simple moto route loop containing 5 waypoints in addition to start/finish from home, then "sending" that route to the 3597. Worked fine, although it opened differently than Zumo550 and was then navigable (Apps -> Trip Planner -> "Route Name").

 

My suggestion to Fernando is to install the BaseCamp download, then use the UN's XIV route file containing multiple waypoints as an experiment. BTW, those waypoints can be "selected on the fly" as go-to destinations once uploaded to your gps device as part of a route which I find handy when not navigating a route in the originally specified waypoint sequence. Agreed, there is a learning curve in BaseCamp on how to create specific waypoints and custom routes from those but I think the effort is worth it. Even though I'm an advanced user of the older MapSource software, there's re-learning for me to do on differences between that and BaseCamp.

 

 

 

 

 

[Bill_Walker]

This may depend on the limitations of your particular unit, but one thing I'd advice is breaking your trip up into several routes, e.g., Day 1, Day 2, Day 3. I find even my relatively recent Zumo 660 has problems dealing with routes that are too long or contain too many waypoints.

 

Ooh, forgot you said "GPS Luddite". A waypoint is a named marker of a particular location. Some GPSs, in an attempt to be more Luddite-friendly, call them "Favorites" instead of waypoints. Confusingly, they may be called waypoints in BaseCamp but Favorites on the GPS.

 

A route is basically just a list of waypoints, either created by you or automatically created by the GPS when it calculates the best route to a destination. Because the GPS will automatically recalculate your route if you venture off the route even a little bit (or if it THINKS you've ventured off the route, it's good, when creating a custom route, to set one or more waypoints on each section of road you want to make sure you travel on, so the GPS doesn't decide on a faster way around it.

[JR356]

http://support.garmin.com/support/searchSupport/case.faces?caseId=%7Bf2cf7300-77af-11e2-65d0-000000000000%7D

 

Shows per this Garmin document that the 700 series does receive routes.

But many Garmin devices will attempt to recalculate routes,that's why you need multiple route points,so called"shaping"points.

 

JR356

[jjg3]

Here's a link to a Garmin forum short discussion (a couple years old) on this issue that might be of some help. I haven't run it down to its end so don't know the status of the referenced links.

 

'GPS Luddite' drew me to the thread. The gps on my machine is a brick Streetpilot III on a touratech mount. Still have the monochrome Streetpilot in the garage. I keep an old steam powered laptop PC that will not reliably power up, but I need it to run Mapsource to load map segments to the chip. Just can't bring myself to dispose of it.

[EffBee]

OK, I think I caught a break. It's a good thing (maybe) and a bit embarrassing, I've never used anything on the GPS's menu except Address. But I scrolled the menu and I found something called Routes. So I started poking around and created a perfect route from SoCal to Torrey. Not that the GPS had much choice, but I the exact route I wanted with a start and end point and just two waypoints in between, Hurricane UT and Tropic UT. Then I saved it, looked at it, shut it down, reloaded it, etc. And it was always there.

 

Now, I don't know how many routes it will let me save, nor what the limit on waypoints is in each route, so I'm going to create a route to San Francisco tomorrow, and plug in about 40 waypoints. Given that most of my route to/from the Un involves a good deal of slab, even if I decide to take the scenic route going home, and duck through Colorado, stop in Torrey, and then come home, I think 40 waypoints per route should cover it.

 

 

This may depend on the limitations of your particular unit, but one thing I'd advice is breaking your trip up into several routes, e.g., Day 1, Day 2, Day 3.

 

That's a good idea, Bill. Thanks. All I need is for it to accept 4 days of outbound routes and the same number on the return trip, with two alternate routes for two of those return days. I don't know, but I imagine it should hold 12 routes.

 

Now, for those of you familiar with the feature, will this do the job, or is it a very watered-down Basecamp that will disappoint me en route (I'll have map backups)?

[Effjay]

Be aware and careful when creating waypoints when those are towns or cities of significant size, 'cus routing to that will try to take you to whatever Lat/Lon coordinates represent where that waypoint name represents. Often its town center, city hall or similar. If you're on an interstate, just keep going and it'll recalculate to next waypoint in sequence.

 

When creating custom waypoints in BaseCamp (or older MapSource), most of us choose a smaller spot along the highway in the direction we're headed. Also noting that on interstates, you must zoom in very close and click that waypoint on side of divided highway you are headed, otherwise Garmin will instruct you to exit and U-turn to opposite side of interstate where waypoint clicked in error...

[EffBee]

Be aware and careful when creating waypoints when those are towns or cities of significant size, 'cus routing to that will try to take you to whatever Lat/Lon coordinates represent where that waypoint name represents. Often its town center, city hall or similar. If you're on an interstate, just keep going and it'll recalculate to next waypoint in sequence.

 

When creating custom waypoints in BaseCamp (or older MapSource), most of us choose a smaller spot along the highway in the direction we're headed. Also noting that on interstates, you must zoom in very close and click that waypoint on side of divided highway you are headed, otherwise Garmin will instruct you to exit and U-turn to opposite side of interstate where waypoint clicked in error...

 

So hypothetically, if I want to go from L.A. to Salt Lake City, and I set Las Vegas as a way point, you're saying it's going to want to route me to the center of LV, or City Hall, or whatever, rather than just recognize that I'm passing it on my way to the "End Point." OK. So if I know I don't want to stop in LV, can I just ignore the "Take Exit XX" instruction and then ignore the "Make U-Turn" instruction and eventually have the software just give up and start focusing on the next waypoint? Or will it keep insisting until I pull over and remove that waypoint from the route?

 

The "Routing" function in the GPS lets me route in Alpha mode, not on a map. Therefore, I get to set a start and end point, and then add waypoints, all by typing in names. There's no "picking a spot along the edge of the highway."

 

Hmm. I may have to test this locally.

[Effjay]

'Morning, Fernando

 

First off, I never create a "route" on the gps device itself unless simply point-to-point, i.e., single destination. On routes created on your 'puter and uploaded to your gps, yes - if you keep going and ignore prompts to exit to that city center waypoint, Garmin will recalculate once you pass far enough beyond and instruct to next waypoint in sequence. One nice feature on newer Nuvi units (at least so on my 3597) is that the irritating "recalculating" spoken message is no more. Instead, Garmin silently recalculates then speaks adjusted nav instruction.

 

Still suggest you download the free Garmin BaseCamp utility and the mentioned UN route(s) files, then open that file and play around with it awhile. One aspect on that is that its a master route file, i.e., contains multiple routes much like daily "legs" or route options once there - each containing waypoints in specific sequence. Nice thing about route files is that you can edit those previously created as fits your needs, "save as" your own unique route file and then upload to your gps unit after you are satisfied its reasonably error free. Any waypoints contained within a route file uploaded to your gps can also be navigated to as point-to-point "on the fly" as a Favorite, which is handy during a long trip.

 

I created some MapSource screenshots (similar enough to BaseCamp) for a buddy coupla years ago and saved as pdf docs as basic tutorials. I could email to you (BMWST sticker address) if you'd like...

[EffBee]

Jeff, thanks. That would be nice. Since it's free, I'm going to try Basecamp. Especially since the keyboard input accuracy on my 5-y/o Garmin sucks month-old donuts.

[dirtrider]

Morning EffBee

 

You are getting good advise above.

 

If you want the real easy way out just__

 

Update the mapping on your GPS to latest available for your unit (decreases mapping errors due to road changes & new roads, closed bridges, etc)

 

Then Download & install Base Camp 4.4.7 (preferably on your PC as we can better help with that set up)

 

Then (here is the easy part) use a paper map, or Google maps, or?? & tell us the roads you want to use, towns/cites you want to go through & about where you want to stop each day.

 

We can then make you a basic set of routes (& tracks) with appropriate via points & way points & send you the route back to view in your Base Camp. You can then do some tweaks or changes to suit your needs then send it back to us. We can then verify they are viable routes & will work without problems.

 

Once you get the routes you need then just download to your GPS.

 

Even though you can't import tracks into your specific GPS unit-- including tracks with the routes positively gives you a non varying base track to verify that your routes follow. (tracks never change but routes can be changed by different routing influences like avoidances, GPS settings, or how your mapping matches the routing instructions from others)

 

As a REAL check-- once you import the routes into your GPS you can THEN upload from GPS back into Base Camp & verify that your GPS hasn't modified the routes when importing.

 

 

Even if you decide you want to make all the routes yourself do send them to a seasoned GPS motorcycle traveler to verify that they are not corrupt & will flow flawlessly without flaws or track-backs or major missed turns.

 

Nothing more frustrating than getting 300 miles into a 2000 mile trip & finding that your GPS routes are corrupt or misleading (that can easily happen to new GPS route makers/planners)

 

Added: I should add, on new GPS long route travelers I usually advise to change the HOME on your GPS to the destination (or close anyhow). That way IF you have ANY routing problems on the ride you can just hit the HOME & it will take you to destination. Then once at destination change the HOME back to your home (or home local police station is better so no one has direct directions to your house if GPS lost or stolen)

 

 

 

[elkroeger]

I need the simplest solution. Any GPS gurus have some experience they'd like to share.

 

So my two cents is just do what makes sense to you. I will do a lot of routeplanning with the gps for other endeavors, such as climbing and backcountry skiing, where precise navigation can be nearly impossible, and the consequences of getting off route, severe. But for the motorcycle, jeez, it's supposed to be fun, so why overcomplicate it?

 

Proper use of the gps involves the use of paper maps. There's a reason they say the gps is good for finding out where you are, but the paper map is better for finding out where you want to go.

 

For me, part of the genius of the gps is not so much that it's a route PLANNING device, but a device that practically eliminates planning, and frees you up to enjoy the ride. The way I use the thing, is to get the basic idea going with the paper map, and settle on a destination for the day. If I'm in Seattle, and I want to pass through Boise, I'll just punch in boise, and off I go. If I have a specific destination, like a motel, I'll punch in the address.

 

For little diversions that I find along the way, I just ignore the gps's turn by turn directions, and then get back on route when i'm done taking in the scenery. For larger diversions, I'll just set a new destination.

 

Of course there are innumerable stories about idiots blindly following their gps to their demise. So don't do that. But there is something liberating in simply riding off in some general direction, and knowing that you don't really have to follow the thing that precisely, or pay that much attention to where you're going, because it always knows where you are and how to get there. Have fun!

[marcopolo]

Another basic question, how are you going to power the GPS?

[Effjay]

Another basic question, how are you going to power the GPS?

Good point as I wondered too with that Nuvi unit for moto use. BTW, I sold my R1150RT this afternoon. Buyer opted not to take Garmin Zumo550 at extra cost, so it'll be posted here soon. Not trying to sell it this way - merely as a "heads up"....

[EffBee]

Another basic question, how are you going to power the GPS?

 

Some time ago I bought a RAM cradle for it and the separate power lead with the flat plug on one end, open wires on the other end, and somewhere in the middle a small egg-shaped plastic compartment which I think Bill Dana once called "A stepped-up, double-hydraulic, reversible voltage reducer." I'm going to shorten the leads from the egg to the open end, connect it to one of the 2A fused spades in the fused power block in my tank bag, and run the power lead and the audio lead out of the tankbag and to the cradle. The other end of the audio lead will go into an open port on a dual isolator I have connected to the Autocom Pro7 in my tank bag. My XM Radio goes into the mutable port, and the dual isolator, with my V1 and the GPS, will go into the dominant port. Both will mute my music, but they won't mute each other. Still, I'll know when that V1 goes off.

[EffBee]

Another basic question, how are you going to power the GPS?

Good point as I wondered too with that Nuvi unit for moto use. BTW, I sold my R1150RT this afternoon. Buyer opted not to take Garmin Zumo550 at extra cost, so it'll be posted here soon. Not trying to sell it this way - merely as a "heads up"....

 

Zumos are too rich for my intended usage. Even used. I just don't need a GPS all that often any more. And if I get lost, I've got maps and a cell phone with GPS. But I had this old Nuvi hanging around and given the length of the trip which is mostly slab except for going through Yellowstone outbound, and CO/UT inbound (the latter two whose roads I already know), I thought it might be occasionally entertaining and perhaps even informative. Otherwise, I'd just buy a new 2597LMT and start working with current technology. In fact, I might, since updated maps is going to cost me $50, which is 1/3 the price of a new Nuvi with all the bells and whistled I'll need. Regardless, I'll still need to learn to plan routes using Basecamp.

[EffBee]

OK, first things first. I got my Nuvi mounted, powered out of the fused power block in my tankbag, and with the voice output wired back into my Autocom through a dual isolator it shares with my V-1. So now I have Staellite radio on one Autocom channel, and V1/GPS on the override channel. I've tested it in the garage and it works, although the GPS volume is kind of low, even cranked up. I've also tested it in the driveway with the engine running, and there's no static or feedback. I'll take it out for a short spin today, with a local address as destination, and see how it works on the road. So far, so good.

 

Now, on to Basecamp.

[dirtrider]

although the GPS volume is kind of low, even cranked up. .

 

Morning EffBee

 

If you can access the internal voice files you can probably hack them to be louder with a hex modifying program

 

It's been years but I cracked the voice files in my Zumo to make them loud enough to hear on a motorcycle traveling at (*)00+ mph.

 

If you are interested then first find out if you can access the voice files in your GPS, if so then I will try to dig up the program & procedure that I used to hack my voice files.

[EffBee]

although the GPS volume is kind of low, even cranked up. .

 

Morning EffBee

 

If you can access the internal voice files you can probably hack them to be louder with a hex modifying program

 

It's been years but I cracked the voice files in my Zumo to make them loud enough to hear on a motorcycle traveling at (*)00+ mph.

 

If you are interested then first find out if you can access the voice files in your GPS, if so then I will try to dig up the program & procedure that I used to hack my voice files.

 

Thanks, DR. But that's currently outside my comfort zone. Besides, more than anything what this is for me is an exercise to see if having GPS on my bike is truly worth it. And I'll admit it's a weak test, since I'll be on interstates or state highways 95% of the time, the exception being through Yellowstone NP. So voice commands aren't that critical, except maybe to find the motel each night, which will happen at city speeds. But if I do enjoy having it, I'll upgrade. If not, and now being retired, my GPS use is limited.

 

If I do end up upgrading, I may have to go Bluetooth, since it's hard to find a Nuvi with an audio output port. Most of them have BT capabilities, so it'll mean a BT dongle for my Autocom.

 

The new thing for me, now, is that I've learned my 765LT won't accept outside routes. It has an internal route system, in which I can set waypoints. It stores up to 10 editable routes. So I guess I'm going to have to do my mapping on screen. Perhaps another reason for an upgrade down the road.

[greiffster]

Thanks, DR. But that's currently outside my comfort zone. Besides, more than anything what this is for me is an exercise to see if having GPS on my bike is truly worth it. And I'll admit it's a weak test, since I'll be on interstates or state highways 95% of the time, the exception being through Yellowstone NP.

>>>>

The new thing for me, now, is that I've learned my 765LT won't accept outside routes. It has an internal route system, in which I can set waypoints. It stores up to 10 editable routes. So I guess I'm going to have to do my mapping on screen. Perhaps another reason for an upgrade down the road.

 

Yup, that's not a real test. The real fun is creating the routes to and from your destinations and then being able to import those and maybe some alternates. AND most importantly, what about all those fantastic routes created by the guys that have ridden there (wherever) for years? Case in point, Mitch's routes for the UN? You don't need to spend a lot of money for that. The least important feature to me is the BT/audio/turn by turn stuff. My GPS usage is 100% visual, I don't ever use the audio. YMMV.