Helmet Replacement at 5 years questions

[markgoodrich]

We all know the helmet makers recommend replacement every five years. I've seen their reasons...deterioration of the protective foam from age, sun, hair products, sweat, etc.

 

I really just have one question: does anyone have ACTUAL EVIDENCE in support or to the contrary? Not a personal opinion, but proof that after five years normal use a helmet has degraded enough to be considered unsafe?

 

Did I mention I'm not looking for personal opinions?

[eddd]

I've looked for actual evidence of that in the past when people have made statements as if this is a well documented issue. I was never able to find any definitive studies/data.

 

 

[marcopolo]

Here's an extract from the SNELL Foundation's FAQ page:

 

"Why should you replace your helmet every five years?

 

The five-year replacement recommendation is based on a consensus by both helmet manufacturers and the Snell Foundation. Glues, resins and other materials used in helmet production can affect liner materials. Hair oils, body fluids and cosmetics, as well as normal "wear and tear" all contribute to helmet degradation. Petroleum based products present in cleaners, paints, fuels and other commonly encountered materials may also degrade materials used in many helmets possibly degrading performance. Additionally, experience indicates there will be a noticeable improvement in the protective characteristic of helmets over a five-year period due to advances in materials, designs, production methods and the standards. Thus, the recommendation for five-year helmet replacement is a judgment call stemming from a prudent safety philosophy."

 

[Marty Hill]

7-$800 over 5 years to keep your head safe. Seems very fair to me. I'll bet some of us spend that on coffee in the same time period.

[szurszewski]

Actually if you had a lower priced latte three times a week it would be more like $3000 in five years. So even a regular cup a few times a week would be a good bit more. Thanks for the perspective

[tallman]

7-$800 over 5 years to keep your head safe. Seems very fair to me. I'll bet some of us spend that on coffee in the same time period.

 

All my coffee is DOT approved.

[markgoodrich]

Yeah, I've seen that same language before, Mark. Kind of vague and nonspecific.

 

You other comedians with the coffee comments, the point isn't the cost of a helmet, it's how long it's safe.

 

 

[smiller]

"Thus, the recommendation for five-year helmet replacement is a judgment call stemming from a prudent safety philosophy."

 

Well, among other things...

 

Absent any actual evidence to the contrary I tend to doubt that the material in the shell or liner of a properly cared for helmet would significantly degrade over the course of five years. The point about technology improvements increasing protection over time has some merit, but then again if the helmet met safety standards when it was manufactured and the standards haven't changed then one might not expect a huge difference. In that case a newer helmet may be lighter, quieter, and less smelly, but not necessarily any safer.

[szurszewski]

Yeah, I've seen that same language before, Mark. Kind of vague and nonspecific.

 

You other comedians with the coffee comments, the point isn't the cost of a helmet, it's how long it's safe.

 

 

I'm sorry - I must have confused you with the comedic markgoorich who writes all those witty posts. That guy seems to have a good sense of humor.

 

As for safety, it's probably just best not to crash - but if you do, make sure it's during the first 4.5 years of your helmet's life.

[EffBee]

Back when I was the National Sales Manager at Helmet House, the U.S. Distributor for Shoei and HJC, I asked the Sales Manager at Shoei pretty much the exact same question. He told me that while he hadn't seen the exact data, he'd heard from some of Shoei's visiting Japanese executives that tests conducted on such older helmets concluded that somewhere around 10-15% of them could not pass their original SNELL certifications at the age of 7 years, but that virtually all still could at 6 years. So, 5 years became the publicly-stated replacement point, for safety reasons and (my opinion) for liability reasons.

 

 

[Scud]

...tests conducted on such older helmets concluded that somewhere around 10-15% of them could not pass their original SNELL certifications at the age of 7 years, but that virtually all still could at 6 years. So, 5 years became the publicly-stated replacement point, for safety reasons and (my opinion) for liability reasons.

 

 

Thank-you for those data. I was doing high-school statistics homework with my daughter this weekend - trying to explain how statistics influence our world - and why she should "care". This is a good example. If 85-90% of helmets can still pass at 7 years then a 5-year "rule" will include a much higher percent of the population. We could look up a z-score to help us describe this curve... A helmet might have to be (for example) six standard deviations from the mean in order to fail at 5 years.

 

The probability that YOU or I have the six-sigma error helmet is quite low - so we can use ours for more than 5 years. But the probability that SOMEONE has the six-sigma, five-year-failure helmet is nearly 100%. Hence, statistics, public policy, and corporate risk management...

 

BTW, I am drinking coffee that I made myself in a press for much less than $3.00 a cup. And I am wondering why I am writing about statistics at 6:30 am on Sunday morning. I think I will go buy some donuts - which is really an excuse to go for a ride...

 

Just for the hell-of-it, I am going to wear my old Arai instead of my new Bell. Living dangerously with out-of-compliance helmet and processed sugar.

[tallman]

So according to statistics, I should ride helmetless as my skull is 100% as effective wrt crashing as it was 20 years ago.

No loss in safety.

[szurszewski]

So according to statistics, I should ride helmetless as my skull is 100% as effective wrt crashing as it was 20 years ago.

No loss in safety.

 

 

Ooooh - I think I see a problem: going by other posts wherein you've detailed some of your previous crashes/injuries: your skull was likely compromised in one of those crashes (even if it appears undamaged from outside, the internal layers could be compressed irregularly) and should have been replaced after the first crash.

[tallman]

They were but the warranty has expired.

 

[Scud]

So according to statistics, I should ride helmetless as my skull is 100% as effective wrt crashing as it was 20 years ago.

No loss in safety.

 

That's right; you've got it. And since your legs and feet have also not diminished in their crash-effectiveness, you should wear plaid shorts, sandals, and black, mid-calf-height socks while riding.

 

Seriously, I think the point of the 5-year rule is to have a high-reliability (aka low-error rate) safety guideline. The fact that it may cause additional sales is certainly beneficial to companies in the industry. Nothing magic happens on 5 years plus one day of a helmet's life, and it's probably fine to get a couple more years out of a helmet - especially if it's well cared for.

 

I'm having a donut. My old Arai helmet smelled terrible. It's officially retired now.

 

BTW - what do you all do with your retired helmets? Are they just garbage? I generally give them to a charitable organization, but perhaps they should just be thrown away?

[Gene#3]

This is getting as bad as an "oil thread"...

[mbelectric]

 

Seriously, I think the point of the 5-year rule is to have a high-reliability (aka low-error rate) safety guideline. The fact that it may cause additional sales is certainly beneficial to companies in the industry. Nothing magic happens on 5 years plus one day of a helmet's life, and it's probably fine to get a couple more years out of a helmet - especially if it's well cared for.

 

Bingo. Winner!

 

The fact that my helmet probably gets more use than most weekend warriors is a major factor in longevity. Someone that rides every other weekend and keeps theirs in a climate controlled dark closet will get much more than the 5 we're talking about. Nonetheless, inspect and act accordingly.

 

As for what to do with your old helmet, take some time and rip the insides apart. Pay close attention to the degradation of shell and liner, pads.

 

Report back your findings.

 

MB>

[eddd]

Yeah, I've seen that same language before, Mark. Kind of vague and nonspecific.

 

You other comedians with the coffee comments, the point isn't the cost of a helmet, it's how long it's safe.

 

 

Exactly! The money isn't always the bottom line. Finding a helmet that is comfortable and has the features you're after isn't always easy. My Nolan Trilogy purchased from Germany is the best fitting most comfortable helmet I've ever own, but they stopped making that model. The new version is a completely different helmet. I don't want to replace that helmet just because it is 5 years old.

[EffBee]

Back when I was the National Sales Manager at Helmet House, the U.S. Distributor for Shoei and HJC, I asked the Sales Manager at Shoei pretty much the exact same question. He told me that while he hadn't seen the exact data, he'd heard from some of Shoei's visiting Japanese executives that tests conducted on such older helmets concluded that somewhere around 10-15% of them could not pass their original SNELL certifications at the age of 7 years, but that virtually all still could at 6 years. So, 5 years became the publicly-stated replacement point, for safety reasons and (my opinion) for liability reasons.

 

 

I should clarify. This information was at least third-hand and probably only applies to Shoei. It's my understanding that with helmets, most of the degradation comes from air pollution particulates that serve to stiffen the EPS inner shell, so that it doesn't compress as it originally was designed to do and doesn't absorb impact as well.

 

There are different types and grades of EPS (expanded polystyrene), and the grade and quality may affect the point at which a helmet no longer meets its original protective capabilities. One might assume a better grade of EPS in a higher-priced helmet as well as the inverse, but you can't be assured of that as fact. But taking it as so for the sake of hypothetical discussion, a lower-priced helmet may be negatively affected in less time, assuming its EPS is equally affected by pollutants.

 

There are a lot of other factors as well. Many of these have been pointed out above. For me, the deciding factor is this:

 

In the 0.3 seconds between "O Shit!" and impact, you can't call time out and go get your good gear on, or go buy yourself a newer, fresher, more advanced helmet. You make it or you don't based on the decisions you made when you got on your bike that day. Motorcycle riding is a dangerous activity, usually through no fault of our own. I do what I can to mitigate the possibility of going down or being hit. And I accept that I might, so I do what I can to mitigate injury. That means the best gear, the best helmet, and good solid training and repeating classes every 2-3 years.

 

It's the best insurance I can buy.

[Skywagon]

I replace my pads every 2 years. Wouldn't it be interesting if the helmet mfg's made snap in replaceable EPS. I do replace my lid every 5-6 years anyway. My helmet is always stored indoors and I only do about 7000mile/year. It gets wiped down clean with water and a cloth diaper after every use. Heck I even wash my bike nearly every time it is ridden. That's all part of the fun for me.

[Scud]

 

As for what to do with your old helmet, take some time and rip the insides apart. Pay close attention to the degradation of shell and liner, pads.

 

Report back your findings.

 

MB>

 

Ok - good suggestion.

 

My findings:

Nasty helmet, should've washed the liner more frequently...

 

I didn't see a date on it, but I will estimate 8 years. It's been sitting around for a while - I tend to hold onto my most recent helmet just in case someone needs to borrow it.

 

I'm really not sure how to evaluate the impact-absorbing foam. I can make little dents in it with firm finger pressure - the pressure required to do so seems about the same in many places. I didn't see any deterioration. But if the changes affect the properties of the foam in some other way, it's not obvious to me.

 

Finally - I had been a loyal Arai customer for years, decided to try a Bell. The Arai was still more comfortable - so I may be back with them soon.

[markgoodrich]

I raised this question for two reasons, to see if anyone knows if it's REALLY something to do, or if it's marketing. I've landed on my head before, and am very happy I had a good helmet. I've also landed on my head with bicycle helmets, and been happy, too. They split in half, but my head was unhurt.

 

Lately I noticed my five year old bicycle helmet was looking a little ratty. Close inspection showed the EPS foam had cracks in several places. In one spot the crack went all the way through. I smashed it with a sledge and went and bought a new one.

 

Absent any actual evidence, which appears to be the case, I will continue to buy a new helmet every five years or so. But it's galling that there really isn't any actual evidence available.

[Tri750]

For a number of years, I was lucky enough to attend seminars put on by Arai helmets USA.

Up until, say 5 years ago, they would say their helmets should be replaced every 10 years max.

IF there had been no accidents, big drops, repaints, and of the liner still was in good shape with no fraying of the strap.

 

Then like I say, approx 5 years ago, they chose to use the SNELL 5 years replace suggestion.

 

BUT, if you look at the Arai website and the Tucker Rocky ( one of the largest Arai distributors) catalog, they continue to supply parts, side pods, vents, etc. for helmets older than 5 years just like they did before they joined the SNELL opinion group.

But yes, safety is a very personal thing to be decided upon by each person. I remember every year or so I would get a call from someone looking for a shield for a BMW System 1 or 2 helmet !

These folks will always insist they are right in wearing a 20 year old helmet and won't listen to helpful suggestions.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ken S]

About helmet quality and safety:

There have been several mentions here about quality and safety of Arai helmets. I've been looking for an Arai Signet Q because of the long-oval shape. All other helmets I've used hurt my forehead after a short time.

 

Anyway, I just happened to look on Amazon for the Signet Q. They sell them (with free Prime shipping), and most are priced close to $600. But I found a white one in XL size new for $282.01 -- and bought it. It said that there was only 1 left at that price, and after the purchase I checked and the price had gone up to $557.95. Looks like different sizes and colors are different prices there.

 

But if anyone is interested, looks like there is also one XL left in Sapphire Silver for $287.49. There may be other deals on other size/color combinations, but I didn't check them all.