GPS vs. Map Discrepancies

[The Rocketman]

I was on the phone with Garmin Tech Support for a few hours yesterday morning to no avail and hoping you can help. No urgency, as I’m not leaving for this trip until next Friday morning.

 

I created a route to get me from Lake Conesus, NY back to Long Island.

 

The original route was created in MapSource, imported into BaseCamp, then exported into my Zumo 660. The route was recalculated each step of the way, including after it was exported to the GPS. All map dates and versions match up (North America 2017.10)

 

The issue is:

The BaseCamp/MapSource route shows 462 miles; 9 hours and 26 minutes

The GPS route shows 463.8 miles; 7 hours and 52 minutes

Fastest route/motorcycle/same avoidances (car pool lanes, unpaved roads)

 

I can’t account for the time difference, since the distance is the same, and the turn-by-turn directions are exactly the same. I printed them up from MapSource & Basecamp and compared line by line.

 

Can you explain to me where I went wrong (if I did), or do you concur with what Garmin told me below?

 

Here's what Garmin Tech Support sent me:

 

"Thank you for contacting Garmin International. From our last conversation, you were concerned how the total time on the route that was created in Map Source was an hour less after you had transferred it to your zumo 660. I tried testing the route on a zumo 660, but then I switched devices and tested the route using a zumo 395LM with BaseCamp. I ended up getting the exact same results as your zumo 660. So I will strongly suggest for you to continue to use MapSource with your zumo 660. Not only it is compatible but apparently the same issue occurs on newer devices as well. After doing some research, I learned that BaseCamp and MapSource uses a different algorithm/procedure when calculating a route. What happens is that when your transfer the route, you are not transferring a pink line, you more likely transferring the Start/End points and all of the via points in between. The device will then use its own algorithm (procedure) to figure out what street you need to turn on. It will then draw it's own unique line from those points. So to answer your question, I dont feel that there is anything wrong with the route. The zumo 660 is probably giving you a better calculation. My recommendation is check the route for discrepancies and to continue to use Map Source since Zumo 660 is not compatible with BaseCamp. You may compare the turn-by-turn directions with Map Source and your Zumo 660 to see if the route is any different. As a last resort, if the route was originally created in BaseCamp, you can start from scratch and create the route strictly using MapSource. If you have any questions or concerns please contact us by phone or e-mail."

 

I also find it odd Garmin that Garmin tech support recommends using only MapSource for creating/exporting maps on my 660, rather than using BaseCamp, even though I was told the opposite from everyone else I spoke to. Weird….

 

Thanks a million!!

RM

[dirtrider]

The issue is:

The BaseCamp/MapSource route shows 462 miles; 9 hours and 26 minutes

The GPS route shows 463.8 miles; 7 hours and 52 minutes

Fastest route/motorcycle/same avoidances (car pool lanes, unpaved roads)

 

Afternoon RM

 

That happens (more often than we would like)

 

The time thing is not a big deal as you probably have different travel speeds set on BaseCamp/MapSource than your GPS is using.

 

The miles traveled part is probably just the GPS figuring a bit differently or adding in a small section of route not easily seen on your route.

 

What I usually do when I have a different travel mileage between BaseCamp & my GPS is to first highlight the original route in BaseCamp or Map Source then change it's color to something light (light green or light blue).

 

Then re-import the route FROM THE GPS BACK INTO BaseCamp or MapSource (it will come back in as purple line & the route will re-name itself with a 1 or 2 after the original name.

 

Then place both routes in the same folder & open either one (the other should show as a dimmer different color line).

 

Then zoom WAY in & verify that one route EXACTLY overlays the other (you might find a small discrepancy in one area to account for the distance difference)

 

If you are unsure of your route as far a reliability goes then I would suggest that you make another route but make 3 separate routes, one for each 1/3 of the trip, (when one runs out just switch to the next)

 

That way if a section of the original route is corrupt it won't effect the entire route it will only effect the 1/3 of the route that the corruption appears on.

 

Added: also keep in mind that Garmin has posted on their support web site that:

 

The following devices are NOT compatible with routing in BaseCamp:

 

zumo 400 series

zumo 500 and 550

zumo 660 and 665

They basically say to use MapSource but personally I get more routing corruption when using MapSource than when using Base Camp.

 

The below should be the link (I think)

 

http://support.garmin.com/support/searchSupport/simpleCase.htm?caseId={f2cf7300-77af-11e2-65d0-000000000000}&kbName=garmin

 

[greiffster]

RM,

I get huge time duration differences between Basecamp and my Zumo 450. You can adjust the setting in Basecamp for speed on certain types of roads. The 450 has no adjustment (that I know of). Bottom line is the Zumo calculates much shorter durations than my settings in Basecamp. I can barely keep up with 450 on the road, without loosing time.

 

The routes themselves will get tweaked every time you recalculate in a different device or program, even with the same mapset. You really have to dive into the routes and make sure they match EXACTLY if you want the distances to check out.

 

I have heard of some issues with Basecamp on some of the Zumo models. But, Basecamp works fine with mine.

 

 

[The Rocketman]

Great information, and glad I am not alone. The distances are close enough across the board; the time is what concerned me more. I see no reason to be concerned any longer. Should have asked here before calling Garmin., Would have saved me a couple of hours on the phone, although I must say, their tech support folks are top notch, ridiculously patient, very friendly, and they answer the phone about 1000% faster than a couple of years ago.

Thanks again guys

[Shiny Side Up]

Happens to me as well - discreps between MapSource and my Garmin 2610 (I'll continue after the laughing subsides about my GPS being on the "outdated" side!!! (LOL)

 

Sometimes MapSource will route me in some weird ways - such as taking and exit and then getting back on the Interstate. Or... taking an exit and following some weird road way out of my way - only to put me back on the Interstate some 20 miles away.

 

I've resorted to examining every mile of road to ensure I stay on the road I want to while creating a route on my PC (Which is a 386 running DOS 3.2!!

 

That said, I have yet to see the same mileage or time from a route in MapSource and and identical one created in BaseCamp.

[elkroeger]

Seems likely that there's some discrepancy in the posted speed limit along certain stretches, which then affects your calculated travel time.

 

I find that the travel times aren't all that great anyway. They're just suggested times. Traffic, gas or bathroom stops, whatever, and it's all goofy now.

 

Personally I don't put that much faith in the gps. I simply plug in the next destination, and navigate mostly by the paper map. The gps is there to help make sure I don't miss a turn. That way, it's really easy to change my mind (and route) on the fly. I get annoyed with the gps if it keeps trying to put me back on the original route.

 

San Antonio? Sure, lets pass through there. Why not?

[Scarecrow]

Added: also keep in mind that Garmin has posted on their support web site that:

 

The following devices are NOT compatible with routing in BaseCamp:

 

zumo 400 series

zumo 500 and 550

zumo 660 and 665

They basically say to use MapSource but personally I get more routing corruption when using MapSource than when using Base Camp.

 

I think that is so weird! considering that they have not updated maps for Mapsource in years and when I traded in my 2610 (which had stopped functionng) for a zumo 660, support told me to use Basecamp and to forget Mapsource since they no longer update it.

 

It just seems odd that they would then post the opposite.

[dirtrider]

 

I think that is so weird! considering that they have not updated maps for Mapsource in years and when I traded in my 2610 (which had stopped functionng) for a zumo 660, support told me to use Basecamp and to forget Mapsource since they no longer update it.

 

It just seems odd that they would then post the opposite.

 

Afternoon Scarecrow

 

Actually the maps have been updated right along it's the MapSource program itself that is no longer supported or updated.

 

I think the reason for the incompatibility between the older GPS units shown & the newer BaseCamp versions is in how the newer GPS units process & handle transferred data. It seems that Garmin is heading in a slightly different direction on their new GPS units & in how they interact with BaseCamp so the latest BseCamp updates & the latest mapping isn't checked for compatibility with the older Zumo's.

 

I have found that BaseCamp still works with OK my Zumo's but have to be so careful in how the routes are layed out & where the shaping points are placed. (basically the routes need to be COMPLETELY bulletproof & robust so a recalculation can't alter them).

[Shiny Side Up]

dirtrider,

IIRC - the newer maps (post 2008) are in a different zipped format that MapSource cannot display. The last year for any MapSource compatible maps was 2008 - but I could be wrong about that.

I'm still using my 2610 with 2008 maps - which is probably why I see my little arrow on a map wwhere no road exists!! LOL!

 

I do find it strange that a Zumo 660 is not compatible with Basecamp but a 350 is...

 

But - Garmin is a business and like any other company, they discontinue devices and software to introduce new versions. It's all about their bottom line - but that's what pays the bills for the employees who work there.

[dirtrider]

dirtrider,

IIRC - the newer maps (post 2008) are in a different zipped format that MapSource cannot display. The last year for any MapSource compatible maps was 2008 - but I could be wrong about that.

I'm still using my 2610 with 2008 maps - which is probably why I see my little arrow on a map wwhere no road exists!! LOL!

 

I do find it strange that a Zumo 660 is not compatible with Basecamp but a 350 is...

 

But - Garmin is a business and like any other company, they discontinue devices and software to introduce new versions. It's all about their bottom line - but that's what pays the bills for the employees who work there.

 

Morning Shiny Side Up

 

The new NT maps work just fine in MapSource (I have the NT 2017.1 map working on MapSource 6.13.3 as I type this. This in on a Windows PC. All bets are off on a Mac.

 

The zipped format deal is usually on bootlegged maps that were pirated. If the NT mapping comes in legally on Garmin Express so it has a legitimate unlock code then it should work just fine (as of NT 2017.1 anyhow)

 

Some of the very latest milti-language European mapping is causing issues over there but we are OK here yet.

[dirtrider]

Morning Shiny Side Up

 

Giving this some more thought & following up on what I posted above the new Garmin NT maps will have no issues in MapSource BUT you might have an issue getting the newer NT mapping into your old 2610. And you REALLY want to have the same map version in MapSource as you have on your GPS. (making a route on one map version then sending it to a GPS with another map version is just asking for routing issues & anomalies)

[The Rocketman]

DR,

There is a MapSource update to version 6.16.3

[greiffster]

... BUT you might have an issue getting the newer NT mapping into your old 2610.

 

Yes. I am near positive that the 2610 will NOT except the new maps of the last few years.

[dirtrider]

DR,

There is a MapSource update to version 6.16.3

 

Afternoon RM

 

Yes there is, but nothing in the update did anything positive for my usage & needs & it caused some issues that I didn't have with 6.16.3 so I dropped back to 6.16.3.

 

I mostly use BaseCamp anyway so only use MapSorce for a couple of functions & to break maps up to install on older devices.

[Shiny Side Up]

Ok - I stand corrected.

 

THANKS!

[John Bentall]

3 sorts of Maps -

City Navigator - finished with 26xx units.

City Navigator NT - started with 27xx units and finishing with Zumo 660/Navigator IV.

City Navigator NTU (where U stands for Unicode, allowing texts to be displayed in many more languages) - applicable to current Garmin 3 and 5 series and BMW Navigator V units.

 

NT maps are still available, though they might be introduced after the NTU maps for obvious reasons.

 

Hope I have all this correct.

 

P.S. Lifetime Maps refers to Garmin's definition of "Lifetime" - read their small print for further clarification.

[dirtrider]

Morning John

 

As far as I know the NTU (NT-Unicode) maps are not an issue in the U.S. as the actual mapping in NT and NTU versions are exactly the same.

 

The main difference seems to be that the NTU version uses unicode for coding names as European, Africian region, (possibly other areas) require the Unicode so map users can read or search for names in their countries language.

 

I'm not positive on this but have heard that the standard U.S. NT maps have now gone to only twice a year update. (we'll see how that pans out this year)